Global Sumud Flotilla w/ Zuleyka Morales Rivera - Ep 172

Don: 00:00:05

this is Fortress On A Hill, with Henri, Danny, Kaygan, Jo

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vonni, Shiloh, Monisha , and Mike

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welcome everyone to another episode of Fortress On A Hill, a podcast

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about US foreign policy, anti purism skepticism, and the American way of war.

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I'm Jovanni, your host.

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I'm here with Monisha Monisha How are you doing today?

Monisha Rios: 00:00:24

thank you.

Jovanni: 00:00:26

Outstanding.

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today's episode covers the Global Sumud Flotilla, a civilian led mission where

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over 450 volunteers from more than 40 countries, including 22 Americans, were

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seized by Israeli forces in international waters while trying to deliver vital aid

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to the starving Palestinians and Gaza.

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These peaceful participants, many of them were teachers, doctors,

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veterans, activists, and some parliamentarians from Spain.

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The UK and Italy were zip tied.

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they met deprivation and collective punishment.

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For choosing solidarity over silence.

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As most nations remain silent in the force of genocide, failing to do their duty.

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Under the 1948 Genocide Convention in Western states led by the United

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States continue to arm and shield the aggressor, these individuals upheld

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moral courage and humane humanity.

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While those governments exposed to racism and barbarism what should

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have been declared, celebrated as a humanitarian act of bravery, became an

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ordeal of illegal detention and abuse.

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Though many have now been free after global outcry, the humiliation

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they endure will not be forgotten.

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Today we speak with one participant who witnessed firsthand the cause of revealing

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the truth about Gaza and the blockade.

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Today we're honored to welcome Toca Morales, Rodriguez Rivers.

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Soka is a UA Marine Corps veteran and passionate

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international humanitarian actors.

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She served as a drill instructor and helicopter mechanic for the presidential

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helicopter Squadrant Marine one.

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A true citizen of the world.

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Suka has traveled to all seven continents in 85 countries.

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Her activism was ignited after Hurricane Maria's devastation in her

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native Puerto Rico, the oldest colony in the world, and deepened when she

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survived police brutality during the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests.

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Most recently, she joined a peaceful direct action International Saud

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Flotilla to break Gaza's blockade and deliver aid to its besieged population.

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Ika story is one of resilience, solidarity, and

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unwavering pursuit of justice.

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Welcome to the show, Ika.

Jovanni: 00:02:43

Thank you so much for joining us today.

Jovanni: 00:02:44

How are you feeling?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:02:46

Thank you so much for having me.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:02:47

it's a pleasure to be here and to be able to speak with you.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:02:51

I'm all right.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:02:51

I'm recovering, but I'm okay.

Jovanni: 00:02:54

Imagine, after that ordeal, I remember we were talking offline

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about, that sense, I forgot the name.

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You gave it, the sense of being at sea for so long, and then now that

Jovanni: 00:03:02

you're, you're in land, you know, you feel, kind of, kind of oozy still.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:06

I think it's called disembark syndrome.

Jovanni: 00:03:08

Okay.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:08

where you get so used to the movement of the ship

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:11

that once you get back to land, your homo stasis is still kind of off.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:14

Yeah.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:15

So you feel a little dizzy from being in the land,

Jovanni: 00:03:17

You feel like walking sidewards and whatnot.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:20

why do I feel so unsteady?

Jovanni: 00:03:22

you are currently in Puerto Rico, a former Marine, an activist who has been

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living in the United States for some time.

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You arrive to Puerto Rico on October 6th after long ordeal at sea and after

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being under the custody of the IOF.

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What would you say your welcome was, when you came to the island?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:41

Well, I was released in the sixth, but I came to Puerto

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:44

Rico, I think it was on the 18th or something like that, or the 20th.

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So I was in New York City for a while, and it took me a while to actually

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:49

get back to Brooklyn from my release.

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but since being back, especially when I came back on the island,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:03:55

I wasn't expecting, well first let me back it up a little bit.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:04:00

During our entire detention, after we were kidnapped, we didn't have any form

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of communicating with the outside world.

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So we have no idea what's going on.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:04:09

We're just in the prison with no sort of update on anything whatsoever.

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when we were traveling and trying to get back home, we also didn't

Zuleyka Morales: 00:04:19

have a cell phone, so there was no way of communicating.

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I finally got back to New York that I was finally able to get ahold of my phone.

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That's when I realized everything that was happening back in Puerto Rico and

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how the world, stood up and raised their voices and mobilized for the flotilla.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:04:36

when I got back into Puerto Rico, I was completely shocked because the

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mainstream media here in Puerto Rico had been silent about the genocide

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and what was going on in Gaza and in Palestine for the last two years.

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But now for the first time, there's a Puerto Rican in the Flotilla, so now

Zuleyka Morales: 00:04:51

they're, given it the time of day.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:04:53

So I'm just grateful that this was able to be used as a bridge to connect,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:05:00

what is happening over there and open the eyes of the people on the

Zuleyka Morales: 00:05:05

island, of the truth of the genocide.

Jovanni: 00:05:07

It's interesting you say that.

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right now in Puerto Rico, the governor in Puerto Rico, Jessica, Jennifer

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Gonzalez, she's an open Zionist, right?

Jovanni: 00:05:13

And she, she's open about that.

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She's a Zionist.

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And, and, I was in Puerto Rico twice this year.

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early was January and then in July again.

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And, I remember looking at the news, And the way that the Gaza, genocide

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was described, was from the point of view of American mainstream media from

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the point of view of Zionists, from the point of view, of the Israelis.

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and it's interesting because Puerto Rico does have a large,

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evangelical, community, right?

Jovanni: 00:05:42

and for the most part, from my experiences, being amongst evangelical

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groups, they do harp a lot in supporting, Israel no matter what.

Jovanni: 00:05:49

what's your take on that?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:05:51

Oh, absolutely.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:05:53

I think mostly it's based on the indoctrination where it says that they're

Zuleyka Morales: 00:05:57

chosen and they can't be as far as like Israel in the Bible, not necessarily

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pertaining to the nation of Israel that was created 70 something years ago, so

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they have this indoctrination of not going against what the Bible says, and the

Zuleyka Morales: 00:06:18

indoctrination is based off correlating it with the nation of Israel instead

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of the Israel from 2000 years ago.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:06:25

the, support that Israel receives is based off the fear of going

Zuleyka Morales: 00:06:30

against what the Bible says or going against God or something like that.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:06:33

So I definitely think that although maybe morally or deep down, they don't

Zuleyka Morales: 00:06:38

wanna support what they see with their own eyes, they fear going against

Zuleyka Morales: 00:06:44

what the Bible says or what they were taught or indoctrinated to believe.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:06:48

absolutely.

Jovanni: 00:06:49

since getting back, you're participating in a lot of demonstrations

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and I've been watching the demonstrations.

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Online social media and Puerto Rico particularly, led by Mothers Against

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War in front of the Israeli Consulate.

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They do, I think every Tuesday they have a manifestation there.

Jovanni: 00:07:03

you participated mm-hmm.

Jovanni: 00:07:04

Some mutants interviews in that, in as well, you know, can you

Jovanni: 00:07:07

tell us a little bit about them

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:08

Yes, absolutely.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:09

male contr Lara was, founded by, Sonia Santiago in 14th of May in 2003.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:16

she's been, an activist, all her life and humanitarian all her life.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:20

I honestly didn't even know that this, weekly protest existed.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:24

I watched Bianca, the journalist Bianca Alza video on it, and, I was like.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:32

They're demonstrating in front of the Israeli consulate.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:36

No way.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:37

I went over there and spoke to them.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:39

it was important because I didn't know there was a web of solidarity, for

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:43

Palestine in Puerto Rico, especially, one that demonstrated on a weekly basis.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:47

They've had over a hundred demonstrations so far, and haven't missed a single

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:51

Tuesday so I went over there, you know, and I, and I didn't, I told 'em who I was.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:54

I told them, on one of the Tuesdays, in July, if I'm not

Zuleyka Morales: 00:07:59

mistaken, I went over there.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:01

I told them, Hey, my name is Mo.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:02

I went to the March Gaza and introduced myself.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:05

right before I was leaving for the Flotilla, I also went and spoke to

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them, and told them that I was leaving.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:12

meeting them and being able to interact with them and telling them that I sent

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:16

in solidarity with them, They were able to help us, the flotilla, myself and

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:21

the Flotilla a lot when it came time to, putting pressure to both the government

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:28

of Puerto Rico and the government United States to get us released.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:32

So it was, very helpful and, such a good feeling to feel

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:36

understood and feel the solidarity from, comrades from your island.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:08:40

So that was great.

Jovanni: 00:08:41

Marissa, jump in there.

Monisha Rios: 00:08:43

when I saw your interview on Telemundo, did

Monisha Rios: 00:08:47

you have any nerves about that?

Monisha Rios: 00:08:49

because the Zionist presence in PR is strong throughout the Archipelago.

Monisha Rios: 00:08:55

Do you anticipate any kinds of blow back or, you know, like,

Monisha Rios: 00:09:02

you know how they do Yeah.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:05

well, initially, like I said, when I got to Puerto Rico and I

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:09

spoke to Sonia and she was telling me, the news are gonna be there off the road, the

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:14

news are gonna be there at the airport.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:16

I'm just like, oh, what?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:19

because we had no phones, we didn't even have pockets.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:21

So we're coming outta prison.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:22

I don't even have anything to put a phone.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:25

we have no pockets.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:26

when I'm finally getting to the airport I'm realizing that this is being covered

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:31

on TV for the whole island to see.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:35

I'm like, oh, wow.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:37

At the same time, I watched it and realized they cut up what I said,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:41

a lot of the message was said, but there was a lot of words that were

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:44

removed that are, you know, that they didn't want on mainstream media.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:49

So what I did was, after that, anytime I went to Telemundo or Waba, I waited

Zuleyka Morales: 00:09:57

to say the words that I was not supposed to say at the end and 'cause I was

Zuleyka Morales: 00:10:01

live, so like, oh, what's next for you?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:10:03

And then that's when I would mention the G word, or the 9,000,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:10:07

Palestinians that are still prisoners.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:10:09

just like we were, I had to strategically, talk about myself,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:10:14

play the part and then Throw in a little bit of, what needs to be said.

Jovanni: 00:10:19

Yeah.

Jovanni: 00:10:19

Absolutely.

Jovanni: 00:10:20

So, you were at sea for over a month.

Jovanni: 00:10:22

you left, a port in Barcelona, about, 20 boats, making several stops along the

Jovanni: 00:10:27

way, stopped in Tunisia, Italy, et cetera.

Jovanni: 00:10:30

You collected around 50 boats, before being intercepted.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:10:33

it was 44 or 45, Anywhere from 42 to 45.

Jovanni: 00:10:38

You guys were being harassed by, iOS expected to be iOS, through

Jovanni: 00:10:42

drones, you make it to international waters close by, Gaza, and then you

Jovanni: 00:10:47

guys get intercepted by the IOF.

Jovanni: 00:10:49

walk us through.

Jovanni: 00:10:50

What's going on, along the journey, what's going on through your mind?

Jovanni: 00:10:54

what did you guys expect, did you guys expect to get, intersected like that?

Jovanni: 00:10:57

Or, or, you know, what you think would, would've been the outcome?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:02

from the very beginning, we had three days in Barcelona where

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:05

we trained all day for everything from handling content to the media personnel

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:13

that are gonna be aboard each ship to safety procedures, to scenarios, to

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:18

actually practicing them and playing the part, practicing interception.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:23

During the classes, learning about every single flotilla that has

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:26

ever attempted to break the siege.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:29

Learning about the Maori Mara, which is the Flotilla, where nine or 10 activists

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:35

were assassinated by the Israeli, genocide of forces and, 46, were injured.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:42

there was a lot of training we also went through a vetting process initially, so

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:47

at all times, you know, we understand that anything could get us off this mission.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:53

So it was very mission oriented the entire time.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:56

once we got on the ships, we were very mission oriented,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:11:59

especially the Veterans Boat.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:01

from the very beginning, we spoke to a lot of people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:04

Some thought we were gonna make it, others thought we weren't gonna make it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:08

My motto is, I'm hopeful, but I don't have my hopes up.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:11

regardless of what ends up happening in the end we have to make the most

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:15

out of every single moment because the eyes are on the flotilla.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:19

it was more of leveraging and making that bridge of, Hey, we're

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:23

trying to help these people out, but look at what they're doing to us.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:27

And that was really important because that's why the entire world mobilized,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:31

as far as getting intercepted or not once we got into the high risk zone,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:36

I thought we were gonna make it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:37

that night I thought we were gonna make it because it was taking them a very

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:41

long time to intercept us once they started interceptions, for example.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:48

Once the night fell the night of the 1st of October, it took them approximately

Zuleyka Morales: 00:12:54

six hours to intercept 10 boats.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:00

So we were just calculating, making assumptions, saying,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:05

all right, if it's taking them this long, maybe we'll make it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:09

we only got to 48.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:12

nautical miles away from Gaza when our boat, the oah was intercepted.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:17

we were pretty close.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:19

the night prior to October 1st, we had a meeting.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:24

We had meetings every day and Practiced certain scenarios every day, like if

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:28

explosives were dropped on our ship, which they were, multiple times.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:33

we practice if we were to receive fire, incoming rounds, snipe arounds.

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We practiced all sorts of scenarios literally every day.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:42

But the day before, October 1st, we finally for the first time sat down and

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:49

actually discussed the possibility of us reaching Gaza and being able to provide

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:54

the humanitarian aid that we had for them.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:13:57

So for me, that was like, oh man, like we're close.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:01

Like, please let us get there.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:04

But then, obviously we were intercepted boat that got the closest.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:09

If I'm not mistaken, it was the Micko.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:10

No.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:10

And he was and that boat was only 14 or 18 nautical miles from Gaza.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:15

oh, and I forgot to answer your question before about if I expect any blow back.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:18

sorry, I forgot to answer that, that second part of, of the blow back.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:23

ever since I've started speaking up about Palestine, I've

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:27

expected blowback at all times.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:30

the most important part isn't for me, in my opinion, to accept it, it's to utilize

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:36

it in my advantage and leverage it so I can make them look stupid or leverage

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:41

it in any way so that I can utilize that attention to keep the momentum going.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:48

So if you're gonna smear me.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:50

Smear me then.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:51

Okay, look, everyone, now that you're looking at me, check this out.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:56

I feel like I've been strategically doing.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:14:58

For example, I'm not gonna call anything a specific smear, but I didn't give any

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:04

of the media journalists or news outlets, pictures of me with President Obama

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:09

or President Bush until I got smeared That then would cause a contradiction

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:15

or a cognitive dissonance in your mind.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:17

Hold on, you're calling this person a terrorist.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:20

But now, I've been strategically thinking about how I would, respond

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:27

to anything, to always utilize that.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:31

Because the way I like to explain it, it's like, even if I get mad

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:35

hate on social media, that's still an impression, that's still a comment.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:39

that's still discourse.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:41

for example, I've never had that audience.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:44

So for the first time, I can put all the massacres that Israel has committed

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:49

against the Palestinian people, and you're forced to get that notification

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:53

on your phone, even if you're a bot.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:15:55

So it's having that mentality of, okay, well let's make it work then.

Monisha Rios: 00:15:59

that's awesome.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:00

That's really fabulous.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:02

I'm proud of you.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:03

thank you.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:05

Jovanni, did you have another question or can I jump in with one?

Monisha Rios: 00:16:08

along that vein, because I was watching social media Because we're

Monisha Rios: 00:16:12

connected on IgE and in other convos.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:16

I was following sharing and watching the dialogue or discourse take place,

Monisha Rios: 00:16:22

and seeing, a lot of what you were mentioning before, the indoctrination

Monisha Rios: 00:16:26

that's here and the archipelago.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:28

and so that's what made me curious about what's it gonna be like when

Monisha Rios: 00:16:32

you're back and how 'cause you're gonna be a hot topic for a while.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:37

so it's really cool that's your strategy.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:40

but along that vein, how can we, as Puerto Ricans and as Puerto Rican

Monisha Rios: 00:16:46

veterans, all of us take advantage of the moment to further connect

Monisha Rios: 00:16:52

and deepen people's understanding of why should Puerto Ricans care about.

Monisha Rios: 00:16:59

Occupied Palestine.

Monisha Rios: 00:17:01

How do our struggles connect?

Monisha Rios: 00:17:02

How can we decenter ourselves in that understanding and not only

Monisha Rios: 00:17:09

be in solidarity with the struggle that's taking place there, but live

Monisha Rios: 00:17:14

active daily solidarity with the Palestinian community in Puerto Rico.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:20

I've been giving this a lot of thought 'cause I've

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:22

only been in activism a very short time, so I'm a rookie myself.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:27

I think a lot about this, especially because the indoctrination in the

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:32

Archipelago is, layered with not just, religious indoctrination, but

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:39

also colonization it's very difficult to attack this intersectionality

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:45

when this is all they know.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:47

So I think the first part, especially if it's people that either don't care

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:52

about Palestine or think that Israel is doing good or think that they're

Zuleyka Morales: 00:17:57

the chosen people or just whoever is still on this, Israel can do no wrong.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:05

I think it's important to be kind, compassionate and ask very specific

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:11

questions that cause not just curiosity, but utilizes confusion to

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:18

establish a simple right and wrong.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:22

For example, if you ask someone that supports Israel.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:26

Why do you think that Israel is the only country in the world that

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:32

tries children in military courts?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:36

Why do you think that Israel requires every single citizen to serve in the IOF

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:49

Because the reality is that there's too much information

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:53

and too much misinformation.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:55

the problem with misinformation isn't just that there's misinformation

Zuleyka Morales: 00:18:58

or too much information.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:01

The purpose of misinformation is not only for you to be misinformed,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:07

it is also for you to be in a constant state of confusion.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:11

So you can't.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:12

Decide or think critically about any sort of information you're

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:16

consuming in the first place.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:18

that's why it's difficult when you present information to someone and

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:21

they're just like, I'm not having it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:22

So you have to cause them to think critically about something very

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:26

specific that they can choose to not align with left or right, but

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:31

morality, do you think this is okay.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:35

Or do you think this is not okay?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:37

And then they're like, oh, that's messed up, Israel's doing it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:41

And then present it that way so they can at least perceive, receive, and

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:47

try to analyze this information so they can look at it from a different point.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:52

I think that's what's.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:54

Really interesting I was thinking about this, when I was showering, and what I was

Zuleyka Morales: 00:19:58

gonna say in this podcast because that's what's different about the Flotilla and me

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:06

in specific, in reference to Puerto Rico.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:09

You have been looking at this issue from a brainwashed capitalist propaganda

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:15

perspective for the last two years.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:17

Left, right?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:19

Israel, Hamas, this, that, this, that, that's all the Puerto Rican

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:25

people have seen this entire time, just brainwashing propaganda.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:32

Now, I'm not coming at it from this angle or from this angle.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:36

I'm coming at it from this angle.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:38

There's a Puerto Rican, she went over there to bring food and help

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:44

They arrested her and kidnapped her.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:47

That forces you to stop looking at it from these two angles.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:52

That forces you to be like, but why?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:55

Why did they stop them?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:57

Why did they torture them?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:20:58

Why did they sink their ships?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:21:01

Why did they steal their aid?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:21:03

so I think that's what's really important to capitalize off of, to unlearn all the

Zuleyka Morales: 00:21:09

indoctrination and propaganda that we've been, force fed over the last 100 years

Jovanni: 00:21:16

Do you think, because I've had discussions with other veterans

Jovanni: 00:21:19

on social media who, you know well, I've known for a long time.

Jovanni: 00:21:22

We've been, you know, we're in the army together.

Jovanni: 00:21:23

We were stationed together, we deployed together, a lot of them, you know.

Jovanni: 00:21:27

The people I've had discussions with on this, right?

Jovanni: 00:21:29

They're, you know, they're, they're Puerto Rican.

Jovanni: 00:21:31

They're Puerto Ricans are Dominicans, right?

Jovanni: 00:21:33

You know, and there's this like, deep, and we're not bring, not bring what you are

Jovanni: 00:21:38

talking about, you know, into discussions.

Jovanni: 00:21:40

think about the whys, think about the contradictions, is it okay?

Jovanni: 00:21:42

A lot of 'em just hold onto their guns, right?

Jovanni: 00:21:44

and they have this deep, hostility, this deep disdain to anything that

Jovanni: 00:21:49

resembles, Islam Arabs and when I'm here, I'm listening to them, right?

Jovanni: 00:21:54

They're very misinformed and they bring up all kinds of stuff to justify

Jovanni: 00:21:58

why Israel does what it does from the Holocaust to building pyramids in Egypt,

Jovanni: 00:22:04

you know, all kinds of, things, right?

Jovanni: 00:22:06

a lot of their thought process is rooted, from the layers that were

Jovanni: 00:22:10

built, in the early in, in the beginning of this millennial, you

Jovanni: 00:22:14

know, in two thousands of this quote unquote global war and terror, right?

Jovanni: 00:22:18

So anything that so terrorism has been racialized, has been racialized

Jovanni: 00:22:23

to, to have the, given the face not face is someone who, who, who

Jovanni: 00:22:28

is from West Asia, someone who, who, who professed a different

Jovanni: 00:22:31

religion than, than Christianity, most likely Islam, et cetera.

Jovanni: 00:22:35

Do you have any thoughts on that?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:22:37

I mean, it's very true.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:22:39

and we all were victims of that though, you know, like me, for example, I

Zuleyka Morales: 00:22:43

was a kid when nine 11 happened.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:22:45

So I'm watching the propaganda all day on the, on the tv I would smell the smoke

Zuleyka Morales: 00:22:49

from the school and the whole world was saying, these people are your enemy.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:22:54

I would challenge you or anyone that thinks this way, to ask them,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:22:57

okay, how many Muslims do you know?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:22:59

Let's go talk to them.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:00

How many Muslims do you know, or how many Arabs do you know?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:03

Or when's the last time you it's really interesting because there's

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:10

there's peer reviewed, articles and a lot of studies about the United

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:14

States, needing to have a common enemy.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:16

It's just like the migrants, I think in order to try to

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:21

work on that, especially from.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:24

Veterans and military members that have been indoctrinated to hate a

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:31

specific group of people is to welcome them in spaces that are more diverse.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:37

Because a lot of people, like that, are in echo chambers.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:40

their friends all look the same.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:43

they don't get out of certain places, they've never been in

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:45

certain spaces with certain people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:48

and humanizing others, regardless if it's an Arab or a Muslim or not, maybe

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:54

a Hindu, any sort of diversity that they can be submerged into, with the goal of

Zuleyka Morales: 00:23:59

understanding, not to prove them wrong, but to be like, Hey, we're all the same.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:03

we're all the same.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:03

is the first step, but it's a lot of unlearning.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:06

none of these steps can be taken.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:08

If they don't actually care or want to try.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:11

So that's really important too.

Jovanni: 00:24:13

All right.

Jovanni: 00:24:14

So let's go back to the detention, what was the conditions like,

Jovanni: 00:24:17

when you were held there?

Jovanni: 00:24:17

I know you were held in some, remote place in deserts, did you

Jovanni: 00:24:20

and other participants, support each other while you were detained?

Jovanni: 00:24:23

these people that detained you, these Israeli forces, how they viewed you?

Jovanni: 00:24:26

what was your perception of them?

Jovanni: 00:24:28

Did they know you were a veteran?

Jovanni: 00:24:29

and if they didn't know was the treatment, different or was it the same, as the

Jovanni: 00:24:34

others, how do you perceive that?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:36

I mean I'm still trying to process.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:38

I think it'll take me months the way that I keep explaining is like, it's one

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:41

of those experiences that months will pass and you still wouldn't be able to

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:45

fully take it in because it was so much, the entire ordeal was six weeks long.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:50

at the end was the prison time, which was loaded with people with

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:54

a lot of hatred, hatred that they don't even know where it comes from.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:24:57

the treatment, I think they did know that I was a veteran.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:00

sometimes I would, march them around and they didn't like it.

Jovanni: 00:25:04

Marshall, how'd you march him around?

Jovanni: 00:25:06

You put him on attention?

Jovanni: 00:25:07

Like,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:07

I was a drill instructor, you know, and, when I was

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:10

in prison, sometimes I would go to the door and when they would walk from one

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:15

cell to the other, I would left Rod.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:17

they hated it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:18

They hated it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:20

you could also tell, and this was pretty sad the entire time.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:24

it's really interesting because,

Jovanni: 00:25:27

oh, this is what I mean by this.

Jovanni: 00:25:28

I genuinely,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:29

I

Jovanni: 00:25:30

lemme ask you before you continue, were any of these soldiers,

Jovanni: 00:25:32

Americans or from American families?

Jovanni: 00:25:34

I think so.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:35

Like some of them when I heard them talking, I think so, yes.

Jovanni: 00:25:38

Okay.

Jovanni: 00:25:38

Yes,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:38

I don't know for sure.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:40

But I am pretty sure that I saw at least two that had a

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:44

perfect English accent, so yes.

Jovanni: 00:25:46

All right, go ahead.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:47

I am living and witnessing this experience as the person,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:53

human, Puerto Rican and humanitarian and activist that I am, but I'm also viewing

Zuleyka Morales: 00:25:59

this as the drill instructor that I was.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:02

And when you experience and when you live the tortures of the military

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:07

industrial complex, you start licking things a lot differently.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:11

So I was having the experience, but I'm viewing it and living

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:15

it in these two lenses.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:17

what I could observe just right off the get.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:20

I don't know if you've ever heard of the Stanford experiment.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:23

What I observed from the beginning was that the Israeli genocidal

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:28

offense forces are completely, or most of the Israeli authorities are

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:33

completely dependent on physically abusing and terrorizing Palestinians.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:41

So when your enforcement of power is almost completely dependent on

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:47

that, and then you have the citizens of the world that because of their

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:52

passports, you can't necessarily torture them or beat them in that way,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:26:57

then you lose your power because you technically don't really have that much.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:02

Now, I'm not saying that they didn't brutalize people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:05

I'm not saying that they didn't torture people and shame people and put them

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:11

on their knees and mistreat them.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:13

it's important to make the distinction I mean, we've seen the videos that are

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:16

coming out of the prisoners without eyes.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:20

So it's important to make this distinction that based on our

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:23

privileges and our passports, we didn't get, that kind of, torture.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:28

But definitely, in the simplest ways, like, not allowing you to go to the

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:31

bathroom, not getting, medical help when, someone has just fainted.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:38

Pads when you're on your period.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:40

we never got water.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:42

bottles of water or potable water.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:43

We were just drinking off the top, they didn't give us

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:46

food for the first 30 hours.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:48

things like that, which they also do to Palestinians.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:51

they did psychological warfare.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:54

They threatened us.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:27:55

They put 57, women, including parliamentarians, including Greta Thunberg

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:00

in a cage, and then threatened to gas us,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:05

The thing into the little square of the cage.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:08

Brutal forces that, have experienced way too much impunity and are given

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:13

way too much power They also put up two big TVs in the prison and played

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:20

October 7th propaganda with the volume all the way up during a whole day.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:26

Just on repeat.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:27

They put a giant banner of destroyed Gaza that said the new Gaza for

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:32

all of us to see from the cells.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:35

they made some people take pictures with the Israeli flag, kneeling,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:41

and, They physically beat people, dragged people on the floor.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:45

So there was definitely, a lot of that treatment while we were there.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:28:49

Yes.

Jovanni: 00:28:50

Wow.

Jovanni: 00:28:51

what, Monisha Yeah.

Jovanni: 00:28:53

Jump in.

Monisha Rios: 00:28:55

I'm sitting with that,

Monisha Rios: 00:28:56

it's not surprising at all.

Monisha Rios: 00:29:00

Of course.

Monisha Rios: 00:29:01

and to think that

Monisha Rios: 00:29:03

they don't care about how that even looks for them.

Monisha Rios: 00:29:08

doing that to people who are not their target population, and then

Monisha Rios: 00:29:16

knowing how much worse it is for Palestinians and the Palestinian

Monisha Rios: 00:29:19

children that they've captured.

Monisha Rios: 00:29:23

I think that that's just like sticking in my throat right now, I know, Mo

Monisha Rios: 00:29:28

that one of the intentions of all the Flotilla members is not to center

Monisha Rios: 00:29:33

themselves, but to use the privilege that you have to tell the story and

Monisha Rios: 00:29:38

to bring attention and all of that.

Monisha Rios: 00:29:40

And I think you're doing that Really respectfully and wonderfully.

Monisha Rios: 00:29:43

So I just wanna give you props for that.

Monisha Rios: 00:29:45

and to think that it takes people going to this extent to be able to do that.

Monisha Rios: 00:29:53

like in a way it feels so huge, the monster that is the Zionist entity and

Monisha Rios: 00:30:03

the power of each individual that went on each flotilla and will continue to

Monisha Rios: 00:30:08

go on the flotillas, I think is just so monumental in the face of that.

Monisha Rios: 00:30:13

and I'm also moved and inspired by that.

Monisha Rios: 00:30:17

in listening to you it brings me back to the question of.

Monisha Rios: 00:30:22

What can we do more?

Monisha Rios: 00:30:25

What more, can we do?

Monisha Rios: 00:30:27

Because it's not just happening there.

Monisha Rios: 00:30:30

It's in the West Bank, it's also in every location that Zionism has a foothold

Monisha Rios: 00:30:36

and that includes here in Puerto Rico.

Monisha Rios: 00:30:40

my mind is just going in all of these directions of

Monisha Rios: 00:30:44

helplessness, hopefulness, rage, I wish I was healthy enough to

Monisha Rios: 00:30:48

reenlist in a people's army to go over there and do something that for

Monisha Rios: 00:30:54

some reason nobody else is doing.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:30:56

I think for right now, especially now that eyes are On

Zuleyka Morales: 00:30:59

Gaza, on Palestine, in Puerto Rico.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:02

It's so hard.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:02

I'd say the hardest thing is the indoctrination and the evangelicals.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:07

that's not a hill.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:09

that's Everest, for us and for the island.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:11

anytime I've looked at it, and I've been looking at this issue

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:13

since the aggression, started, I'm just like, man, what can we do?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:16

But I think it's really important to boycott here in Puerto Rico.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:21

there's a gazillion McDonald's, dominoes Burger King, and that

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:28

directly funds the genocide.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:30

So I think now that eyes are on Palestine and Gaza, we need to educate.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:36

And even if it means, okay, get five people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:39

Five people, you are gonna teach 10 people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:41

Send them the list and keep forwarding it to the people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:44

we need 10 people from each municipality to spread this and to let 'em know

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:49

so they can at least take action.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:51

Don't buy coffee at Starbucks.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:52

You live in Puerto Rico, what are you doing?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:54

The coffee's great here.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:55

What are you doing?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:56

Stop buying Starbucks.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:58

Get outta here.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:31:59

so I think a mixture, constantly going between, because,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:04

people don't wanna protest.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:05

People don't wanna get on the streets and scream for a little bit.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:09

and that's why the flotilla was so special because people felt.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:13

They could, with the flotilla a little bit more because we were constantly

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:17

asking for action back in the rear.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:19

And that was really special.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:20

There were so many places where they would just get on a Khalek

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:24

and get a Palestinian flag.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:25

And it's like, tag the flotilla, that is what made the world rise,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:30

that they could feel that they were also part of that movement.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:34

So I think for Puerto Rico, establishing the importance of boycotting and

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:39

divesting Coca-Cola, mixing it with boycott and something verbal,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:45

like that would be the action.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:46

And then something would be like knowledge or teaching or this activity.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:51

but we definitely need to start organizing and getting together, joining the protest

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:55

and demonstrations in front of the bases, You need to boycott McDonald's because

Zuleyka Morales: 00:32:59

the same way that they occupy Palestine, the US military is occupying us.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:33:07

Same thing.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:33:08

And it's not good.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:33:10

So things like that, making people feel that they can be part of

Zuleyka Morales: 00:33:15

something to the collective I think is really important to start.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:33:20

I mean, there's a lot of work, but to start I think that's a good one

Zuleyka Morales: 00:33:23

because, I see the lines at McDonald's.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:33:24

they're packed, taco packed.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:33:27

So I think that's a good way.

Jovanni: 00:33:29

May I go to, back to that colonial mindset I just said, earlier,

Jovanni: 00:33:31

is the way, the way we indoctrinate in Puerto Rico is that anything

Jovanni: 00:33:35

that comes from here is better.

Jovanni: 00:33:37

anything that comes from the United States is better.

Jovanni: 00:33:38

that's the indoctrination, the colonization process you talked

Jovanni: 00:33:42

about, most of us followed you on social media and I recall you making

Jovanni: 00:33:45

messages both in Spanish and English, you made reference to, Puerto Rican

Jovanni: 00:33:49

historical, independent struggles.

Jovanni: 00:33:50

You mentioned leaders, martyrs.

Jovanni: 00:33:53

And in you bio you talked about that Maria radicalize you, you know, and

Jovanni: 00:33:57

in some way, you started thinking more about Puerto Rico and its

Jovanni: 00:34:01

relationship with the United States.

Jovanni: 00:34:02

Par and I was asked that question in the interview, and, and at the time,

Jovanni: 00:34:05

the person would ask me that question, I get, I think, I feel I didn't answer

Jovanni: 00:34:09

properly after, time went by, and I started thinking more about it, do

Jovanni: 00:34:13

you see parallels between Puerto Rico?

Jovanni: 00:34:16

Is colonial status?

Jovanni: 00:34:17

Is colonial condition and Palestine, and if so, how?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:21

It's the exact same playbook.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:23

The only thing, we're so colonized and have been so colonized for so long

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:26

that they profit off our death and they profit off anything in this island.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:30

That's the difference.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:32

The aggression that's happening in Palestine, we have experienced,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:35

but just on less severe levels.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:37

It's just like the serialization of one third of women from 1930 to 1970.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:41

That is insane.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:43

But it is the same playbook inclusive in Israel, the finance minister

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:47

and I made a video about this.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:49

They talk about the day after Hamas, they call it the Puerto Rico model.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:53

So this second class citizen, they utilize the same playbook

Zuleyka Morales: 00:34:57

for people to not have sovereignty self-determination, dignity and be

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:00

able to do whatever they want, not only with their lands, but with the people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:04

I see many parallels, as to the videos you're talking about in specific,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:08

when I was in the Flotilla, I was constantly brainstorming in the same

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:11

way that I was telling you about, the boycott I was like, how can I, because

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:16

I don't consider myself like this tenure activist and all that stuff.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:20

I'm regular Joe Schmo, I promise you.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:22

I am a regular person that feels really desperate and really bad for what

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:28

they're doing to the Palestinians.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:30

and I see my people, so that's our people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:33

I literally see it this way.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:34

There's no difference between the human that I see in Palestine and

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:38

the human that I see on my island.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:40

There's no difference to me.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:42

I mean that, when I was in the Flotilla and they were like, oh yeah, you know,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:45

maybe we can make content, da da da.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:46

I was like, all right.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:48

I've read a couple of books.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:50

I read War Against All Puerto Ricans, which obviously I learned a lot there.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:54

And that took me down the rabbit hole of finding out all these things.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:35:58

The same thing that they do to Puerto Ricans, they do to Cubans.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:01

The same thing that they do to Puerto Ricans, they do to Palestinians.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:04

It's so connected.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:05

It's literally all connected.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:07

All of these imperialist, oppressive forces.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:11

It's all connected.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:12

so I thought immediately.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:15

in my social media.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:16

I was private for like five, six years, but I made it public for the Flotilla

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:20

because it would be safer for people to check in on me when I was speaking with

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:23

the media, there was one person in charge of media on the boat, so everything kind

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:27

of needs to get cleared through them just so we make sure that the messaging

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:31

is aligned with our mission and purpose.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:34

And so I was telling them, you know what, I think I've been

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:37

on Instagram since like 2012.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:40

in the years that I've been on Instagram, I've never made videos in Spanish, I've

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:45

never spoken in Spanish in my videos.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:48

So I was like, that would be a really good surprise because I never do that on there.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:53

And it worked out perfectly and benefited because this is a side of me

Zuleyka Morales: 00:36:58

that people didn't even think existed.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:02

This is something that people didn't really know.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:05

most people know I'm Puerto Rican that know me, but they didn't know,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:09

I rep my island in the way that I do.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:12

So when they saw that, like, wait a minute, oh shit.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:15

Then they're like, now I'm speaking from a different perspective, on

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:18

the similarities between my people that you didn't see until just

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:23

now and our people in Palestine.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:26

So that was my strategy.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:27

I'm glad that I was able to extend the voice, and shed light on, the

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:34

systems of oppression that we don't seem to recognize, but that have

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:38

destroyed our island slowly this entire time since the invasion.

Jovanni: 00:37:42

Yeah, the day after Gaza, Puerto Rican model.

Jovanni: 00:37:45

the Puerto Rico model.

Jovanni: 00:37:46

Yep.

Jovanni: 00:37:47

that's wild.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:48

That's wild.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:49

It's the same playbook.

Jovanni: 00:37:51

And when they say the Puertorican model, what do they mean by that?

Jovanni: 00:37:53

by a docile population.

Jovanni: 00:37:54

what do they mean by that?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:56

They mean that they never want them to be sovereign.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:37:59

They never want them to be a state.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:01

They never want them to have self-determination.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:04

They never want them to be independent.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:06

They never want them to have a voice, to have dignity.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:09

That's what they mean

Jovanni: 00:38:10

but at the same time, they don't plan.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:11

they want them to be dominated forever.

Jovanni: 00:38:14

At the same time, they don't want 'em to be integrated

Jovanni: 00:38:15

in their society right?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:17

What's that?

Jovanni: 00:38:18

they don't want it to be integrated into their society either.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:21

Into what society?

Jovanni: 00:38:23

Into their Jewish only Israeli society and whatnot.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:27

there are Palestinians that live in Israel.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:29

they already exist.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:30

They don't want them to have self-determination.

Monisha Rios: 00:38:34

There was a Palestinian in the Knesset as well at one point.

Monisha Rios: 00:38:39

Yes.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:39

Yes.

Monisha Rios: 00:38:41

With limited power.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:43

They don't want Palestinians to ever be able to have

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:45

any sort of control over their land.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:48

On top of that, the goal is to kill them all because there are $600 billion

Zuleyka Morales: 00:38:54

worth of natural gas off the coast of Gaza that belongs to the Palestinians.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:00

So it's a land grab and a resource grab the goal is Greater Israel.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:06

So that's why this is so important, because they're not gonna stop.

Monisha Rios: 00:39:11

just to check in with you Mo, how you feeling?

Monisha Rios: 00:39:14

Do you feel like you wanna continue?

Monisha Rios: 00:39:16

Do you feel like you're getting near your stopping point?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:20

I have to start driving in an hour, so I can do

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:22

20 more minutes, if that's cool.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:24

I love to talk about these things.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:26

so yeah.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:27

I'm good.

Monisha Rios: 00:39:27

There's stuff that I wanna talk to you about in our

Monisha Rios: 00:39:30

other group chat, like Yolanda's trying to set up a group call.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:35

I have to look at, my phone's been blowing up.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:39:37

So it's the group chat with re and Jolie.

Monisha Rios: 00:39:39

Yeah.

Monisha Rios: 00:39:40

But Jolie hasn't added you back yet 'cause we're all trying to give you some space.

Monisha Rios: 00:39:44

you're making my brain fire on all synapses, on things

Monisha Rios: 00:39:48

we can do moving forward, but it's not appropriate for this.

Monisha Rios: 00:39:52

So Henri, edit me out.

Monisha Rios: 00:39:54

Thank you.

Monisha Rios: 00:39:55

But I'm gonna have to start driving 'cause I gotta go all the way back to Saba

Monisha Rios: 00:39:59

and stop off at Home Depot on the way.

Monisha Rios: 00:40:02

do y'all mind if I start driving while we continue?

Jovanni: 00:40:05

sure.

Monisha Rios: 00:40:06

I'm just gonna have my camera off and I'll be listening

Monisha Rios: 00:40:08

and I'll jump in when it's safe.

Jovanni: 00:40:11

Awesome.

Jovanni: 00:40:11

Because I know that Puerto Rico, they call you Mo and the angles.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:15

No, whatever you wanna call me is fine

Jovanni: 00:40:16

Would you go on another, Gaza mission?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:19

Absolutely.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:20

Already looking into it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:22

We have to stop this.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:23

this has to stop.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:24

I mean, I'm not saying we're some saviors, you know, it's not like that.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:27

But we have to do everything in our power to end what's happening.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:30

'cause they're destroying the planet and they're destroying the people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:33

And if we normalize that, that means we allow that to do them to all of us.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:38

Exactly.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:39

And that's not gonna happen.

Jovanni: 00:40:41

what's your take on the so-called, Trump, peace plan?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:44

On the peace plan?

Jovanni: 00:40:46

Yeah.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:47

it's just A Sikh white supremacist colonization plan that

Zuleyka Morales: 00:40:53

normalizes how the imperial forces disregard indigenous people in indigenous

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:00

land, destroy it, and then try to rebuild, whitewash it and make it for profit.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:09

So it's trash.

Jovanni: 00:41:11

And what's your take on the collaborative governments and how

Jovanni: 00:41:13

they've been behaving around Palestine?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:17

Sorry, I didn't get the,

Jovanni: 00:41:18

the collaborative governments around Palestine, you

Jovanni: 00:41:20

know, and how they've been behaving and how they've pretty much been

Jovanni: 00:41:23

supporting in their own way.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:24

They're completely complicit in this genocide.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:27

That's what I believe.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:28

I experienced it in the march to Gaza.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:31

When we weren't allowed to even get 30 kilometers away from Cairo because all

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:37

sorts of, authorities, military personnel, police, everyone was stopping us.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:44

the whole world is complicit, but especially the neighbors of

Zuleyka Morales: 00:41:48

the Palestinians, and the ones that are in bed with Israel,

Jovanni: 00:41:51

Yeah.

Jovanni: 00:41:52

So Leika on that note, I think, it's a good place to wrap up today.

Jovanni: 00:41:55

thank you so much for joining us, for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Jovanni: 00:42:00

do you have any last comments?

Jovanni: 00:42:02

for us, you know, what do you, you know, what would you, your

Jovanni: 00:42:05

listeners, people listening to this, what would you say, say to them?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:09

I would say, don't stop talking about Palestine.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:12

Don't stop talking about Gaza.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:14

the same imperial forces that are dropping bombs on children are the ones

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:21

that are dropping bombs on sailors and fishermen in Venezuela and in Columbia.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:28

The same imperial forces that are starving children and starving mothers and fathers

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:32

and families in Palestine are the same ones that are raising your light bill.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:37

it's the same imperial forces, and it's all for profit.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:40

So find a way to find solidarity and find the will to act because.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:50

In our thousands and in our millions, we are all Palestinians and,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:55

Palestine's, the frontline, whatever our government is willing to do.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:42:58

This is something that Greg always says, whatever our government is willing to

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:02

do to others, especially Palestinians, they're willing to do to you.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:06

They just haven't done it yet, but they will.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:09

stand up and speak up now, because it's not gonna get any better.

Jovanni: 00:43:13

Alright.

Jovanni: 00:43:14

Do you have any last words?

Jovanni: 00:43:15

Monisha.

Monisha Rios: 00:43:17

what haven't you been asked that you want people to be asking?

Monisha Rios: 00:43:21

is there anything that in all the interviews and things

Monisha Rios: 00:43:24

that you've been doing that.

Monisha Rios: 00:43:27

You wish people would go deeper on

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:29

I don't think I can think of anything, off the top of my head.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:32

but I would say,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:34

I'm not asked often about the occupation, like the actual

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:38

occupation, and the ocpa, 1948.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:41

So I think it's interesting that everyone brings up October 7th, or

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:46

Hamas there was an article published, by Save the Children, the global

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:51

organization that said 2023, and this was published in September.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:58

2023, I think.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:43:59

September 17th, 2023.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:00

You can just Google it.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:02

That 2023.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:04

Now, mind you, September, not October 7th, no, September.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:07

it was published by Save the Children, a global organization that saved children.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:13

That 2023 was the deadliest year for children in the West Bank,

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:22

and that was in September of 2023.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:26

So I think, I haven't really been asked about Hamas ever, but what I would have

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:32

to say to that is, when are you gonna wake up and realize that's the excuse that

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:37

they're gonna use to kill them all thing?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:41

Yeah.

Jovanni: 00:44:42

Go ahead.

Monisha Rios: 00:44:43

no.

Monisha Rios: 00:44:43

I was just gonna say thank you.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:45

Thank you.

Jovanni: 00:44:46

Mo, where can people find your work and get involved?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:51

What's that?

Jovanni: 00:44:52

Where can people find your work and how can people follow you?

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:55

Oh, I just have ig maybe I'll have to open up a

Zuleyka Morales: 00:44:58

Facebook or something, or some sort of YouTube so I can talk.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:03

But, at mo z uu mozu, you can just find me there.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:08

that's usually where I post all the information, repost

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:11

and, share what I have to say.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:12

share my solidarity and my actions.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:15

I also like to show up to things and meet people and talk to people and

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:21

stand in solidarity and hug people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:23

I love hugging people.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:24

I think it's really important.

Zuleyka Morales: 00:45:25

Yeah, you can find me there,

Jovanni: 00:45:27

everyone.

Jovanni: 00:45:28

thank you so much again for coming on the call.

Jovanni: 00:45:31

And giving us your time.

Jovanni: 00:45:32

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Jovanni: 00:45:38

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Jovanni: 00:45:41

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Jovanni: 00:45:44

stay tuned to our next episode.

Jovanni: 00:45:46

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