Episode 155

A Revolutionary Act of Protest: Aaron Bushnell and the American empire – Ep 155

Published on: 22nd March, 2024

Jovanni and Keagan join About Face folks Jack Tucker, Rachell Tucker, and Ramon Mejia to discuss the self-immolation of Aaron Bushnell, the historical context of self-immolation as a form of protest, and the mainstream media’s pathological reaction to it.

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Transcript
Don:

This is Fortress On A Hill, with Henri, Danny, Kaygan,

Don:

Jo vonni, Shiloh, and Monisha

Jovanni:

Welcome everyone to Fortress On A Hill, a podcast about U.

Jovanni:

S.

Jovanni:

foreign policy, anti imperialism, skepticism, and the American way of war.

Jovanni:

I'm Jovanni, joined by Keegan.

Jovanni:

Thank you for being here.

Jovanni:

How are you doing, Keegan?.

Keagan:

Yes, indeed.

Keagan:

It has.

Keagan:

A lot of things been happening.

Keagan:

Very very intense very sad, very tragic.

Keagan:

A lot of things happening, a lot of things moving.

Jovanni:

Okay.

Jovanni:

So on Sunday, 25, February, a young man walked to the Israeli embassy in

Jovanni:

DC in his military uniform in front of the embassy, drinks himself in

Jovanni:

flammable fluid and igniting himself.

Jovanni:

On his way there, he was filming himself on his phone, carrying a water bottle

Jovanni:

container, and said, "I'm an active duty member of the US Air Force, and I

Jovanni:

will no longer be complicit to genocide.

Jovanni:

I'm about to engage in an extreme active protest.

Jovanni:

But compared to what people have been experiencing in Palestine

Jovanni:

at the hands of their colonizers, it is not extreme at all.

Jovanni:

This is what our ruling class has decided will be normal."

Jovanni:

His name is Aaron Bushnell.

Jovanni:

A native of Massachusetts, an active duty member of the United

Jovanni:

States Air Force Station in Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio.

Jovanni:

Aaron Jones, Kwan Duk, a monk in 1963, Malachi Richter, musician in 2006,

Jovanni:

Charles Ingram, Navy vet in 2016.

Jovanni:

John Watts, Army Air Force vet, 2018, a woman in Atlanta who also

Jovanni:

committed self immolation in front of the Israeli consulate on December

Jovanni:

2023, and others in the United States.

Jovanni:

A woman in Atlanta who also committed self immolation in front of the

Jovanni:

Israeli consulate on December 2023.

Jovanni:

Names known and unknown.

Jovanni:

Tonight, we'll reflect on Aaron Bushnell and his martyrdom and

Jovanni:

what was his message to us in his final act of protest.

Jovanni:

Joining in the discussion, welcome back to the show, Jake Tucker and

Jovanni:

Rachel Tucker, and we'll extend our welcome to Ramon Mejia.

Jovanni:

Jake Tucker is a veteran of the United States Army from 2001 to 20.

Jovanni:

Jake's experience in the army led him to the anti war and

Jovanni:

anti imperialist movement.

Jovanni:

He is an organizer with oppressed revolutionaries for workers power in San

Jovanni:

Antonio and organizes around labor, anti imperialism, and oppressed communities.

Jovanni:

Rachel Tucker is a veteran of the U.

Jovanni:

S.

Jovanni:

Imperialist Army from 2002 to 2011.

Jovanni:

She is a Cuban American, born in Miami, and has lived in San

Jovanni:

Antonio for the last 17 years.

Jovanni:

Since leaving the military, Rachel has dedicated herself to building within

Jovanni:

her community around anti imperialism.

Jovanni:

Feminism, Building Socialism, and Education.

Jovanni:

She's also an organizer with the Press Revolutions for Workers Power.

Jovanni:

Ramon Mejia is a Marines veteran from 2001 through 2004.

Jovanni:

A native of Dallas, Texas, he's an antiwar veteran.

Jovanni:

And the Anti Militarism National Organizer at Grassroots Global Justice Alliance,

Jovanni:

where he supports members organizing to dismantle systems of violence to

Jovanni:

build healthy and thriving communities.

Jovanni:

Welcome to the show, guys.

Jovanni:

Thank you.

Jovanni:

Thanks for having us.

Jovanni:

So an interview like we said earlier, this is some intense, interesting moments.

Jovanni:

We're just five veterans given, having a discussion, reflecting on Aaron

Jovanni:

Bushnell, on Palestine, Palestinians.

Jovanni:

A person who gave his life for people, that he doesn't know

Jovanni:

personally and his message to us.

Jovanni:

Any of you start this is very informal.

Jovanni:

Who wants to go first?

Jovanni:

Your reflection on what happened on the 25th of February and Sunday

Jovanni:

when you first heard about this?

Jovanni:

And what was your first thought?

Jake Tucker:

My experience was in the army was very much defined by the Iraq war.

Jake Tucker:

I was studying Arabic at the time that The Iraq war was being pushed by

Jake Tucker:

the media, pushed by our politicians, pushed by basically the entire

Jake Tucker:

ruling class that Aaron spoke of.

Jake Tucker:

We actually had pretty robust discussions amongst the fellow trainees.

Jake Tucker:

And it wasn't as uniform, as you would think among the soldiers,

Jake Tucker:

there's a lot of people who are like, this is a terrible idea.

Jake Tucker:

Other people thinking it was whatever, a good idea, whatever.

Jake Tucker:

And then some people that just didn't care.

Jake Tucker:

But I was very much on the anti side basically that we should not go to

Jake Tucker:

war with Iraq side, but then as soon as the bombs started dropping during

Jake Tucker:

the shock and awe campaign any of the dissent basically seemed to dry

Jake Tucker:

up overnight and I became the lone dissenter everywhere I went after that.

Jake Tucker:

And it very much fueled a sense of isolation.

Jake Tucker:

I was very isolated and where I would share my opinions, people

Jake Tucker:

would act very hostilely towards me at times, not everybody by any

Jake Tucker:

stretch, but it was something that, that was definitely present there.

Jake Tucker:

Upon, reading about and learning about Aaron's, protest, I was struck in a number

Jake Tucker:

of ways, struck by his courage, and deep conviction to really, as he says, take

Jake Tucker:

such an extreme act of political protest.

Jake Tucker:

When I was in Iraq, that's when Chelsea Manning released documents to WikiLeaks.

Jake Tucker:

And that's another thing I thought of when I learned of Aaron Bushnell's

Jake Tucker:

protest was thought about Chelsea Manning.

Jake Tucker:

Chelsea Manning was someone I held in, hold in very high regard for her courage

Jake Tucker:

and the subsequent abuse and torture she underwent while incarcerated, and

Jake Tucker:

then was actually incarcerated again, Basically, because she was sharing

Jake Tucker:

documents that the world needed to know about now that we know about them.

Jake Tucker:

It makes it harder for people to look away at the crimes that this country commits.

Jake Tucker:

There's something there are acts of protest and acts of resistance that

Jake Tucker:

individuals take sometimes that are very easy to ignore, dismiss, and wipe

Jake Tucker:

away as just some disgruntled person, disgruntled military member, or as

Jake Tucker:

I would be called, like a shitbag or something like that while I was in.

Jake Tucker:

But I just think that any good faith person understands where

Jake Tucker:

Aaron Bushnell is coming from.

Jake Tucker:

And despite the ways that the media tries to spin who he was, what this protest

Jake Tucker:

was, or even ignore what the protest was about altogether, so as much as the

Jake Tucker:

media tries to move the discussion, move the narrative away from the genocide

Jake Tucker:

and the liberation of Palestine it's not really having the impact that they

Jake Tucker:

desire because we've been, we've all been watching, we've all been paying

Jake Tucker:

attention to this for months now.

Jake Tucker:

And the desperation behind Aaron's act, behind Aaron's act is very clear.

Jake Tucker:

It's very concise.

Jake Tucker:

He was concise about it.

Jake Tucker:

He was composed about it.

Jake Tucker:

And it makes us all pay attention in a way that typical protests by individuals,

Jake Tucker:

don't really reach that level.

Jake Tucker:

So I'll go ahead and stop there and see what other people think.

Jovanni:

Something that really frustrated me was just, yeah, as you mentioned,

Jovanni:

Jake the way that the media has been portraying Aaron's actions, some people

Jovanni:

are just not mentioning him at all.

Jovanni:

I think NPR also said his motives were unclear in their initial reporting.

Jovanni:

And I'm like, Listen to the last fucking thing he said come on.

Jovanni:

Those reporters said that he was echoing pro Palestinian protesters.

Jovanni:

As he was being influenced by some, I don't know, by bad influence, I

Jovanni:

don't know, peer pressure, it was so frustrating to just see that they didn't

Jovanni:

want to tackle the question, because of course not they're not paid to do but

Jovanni:

yeah, I just seeing the reaction around the world has been really interesting

Jovanni:

especially what Arab folks have been saying, very in support of him and

Jovanni:

saying he's a martyr with everyone else.

Jovanni:

No, and I thought that was really interesting to see

Jovanni:

some really cool solidarity.

Rachell Tucker:

Exactly.

Rachell Tucker:

Even like President Maduro from Venezuela had a solidarity statement

Rachell Tucker:

about Aaron Bushnell's sacrifice.

Rachell Tucker:

It just speaks to the world because this same past week the U.

Rachell Tucker:

S.

Rachell Tucker:

vetoed for the third time a ceasefire resolution at the U.

Rachell Tucker:

N.

Rachell Tucker:

and it's definitely not a coincidence, where Bushnell's actions come

Rachell Tucker:

in his very courageous actions.

Rachell Tucker:

I first found out about it on Sunday and I was like, is this real?

Rachell Tucker:

And then find out that, of course it is completely real and it, I was in

Rachell Tucker:

just disbelief the mental preparation that it takes to do such a courageous

Rachell Tucker:

act and to do it like y'all had been saying, so concisely precise.

Rachell Tucker:

So that people can't be mistaken, even if they try to change the narrative, like

Rachell Tucker:

he was very cautious about the words that he used that he would not be complicit

Rachell Tucker:

in genocide and he identified as Air Force service member in his uniform very

Rachell Tucker:

symbolic to, I don't want to say the rest of the military, but if millions have

Rachell Tucker:

been hitting the streets since October 7th, and this government and many local

Rachell Tucker:

governments have chosen not to not to pull funding, not to sign the ceasefire

Rachell Tucker:

resolutions have deployed the police to, to be violent towards protesters.

Rachell Tucker:

Have ignored genocide, have denied genocide from happening in Palestine.

Rachell Tucker:

It is this very courageous and symbolic act of self immolation by Aaron Bushnell

Rachell Tucker:

that has I think, taking, taking it to another level on top of the

Rachell Tucker:

continued atrocities that are happening in Palestine with today, a hundred

Rachell Tucker:

palestinians in Rafah being massacred for while they were getting aid.

Rachell Tucker:

They were, they're starving and they're getting aid and Israel took

Rachell Tucker:

the opportunity to massacre them.

Rachell Tucker:

And so it's like these actions that are out of our control is what I think

Rachell Tucker:

led him, of course to perform this.

Rachell Tucker:

Very courageous and patriotic act, right?

Ramon Mejia:

No, I appreciate what everybody has said.

Ramon Mejia:

And yeah, I just both mourn Aaron's, and those that, that, that were closest to

Ramon Mejia:

him that, are hurting at this moment.

Ramon Mejia:

I think for me The initial, shock you go online.

Ramon Mejia:

I don't even remember if it was something that I was, like, online and I saw a

Ramon Mejia:

bulletin or if it was on social media, but the first thing that I thought

Ramon Mejia:

was, like, I saw I heard I read self immolation, and, and Air Force veteran,

Ramon Mejia:

I'm like, surprised, what happened what's the reasoning I didn't, you

Ramon Mejia:

were getting pieces of information.

Ramon Mejia:

I'm like, oh these were actually his last words and starting to put a little

Ramon Mejia:

bit of information together then.

Ramon Mejia:

So then, once I saw that Aaron sacrificed himself to raise the concern and the

Ramon Mejia:

alarm around the genocide in Palestine.

Ramon Mejia:

The immediately next thought that I had was, like, someone just Did that

Ramon Mejia:

in Atlanta prior to before Christmas, so I'm like, that's just happened, I

Ramon Mejia:

was like, that's when I was thinking wow, that's been two people thus far,

Ramon Mejia:

and, just thinking, in the role that I work at at GDJ around the connection

Ramon Mejia:

around extractive economy, dealing a lot with climate change, that, that

Ramon Mejia:

aspect and working within that sector.

Ramon Mejia:

I recall like learning about someone that had did self immolation on

Ramon Mejia:

Earth Day as a result to raise alarm around climate change.

Ramon Mejia:

And, this being like an anti war veteran, being like knowledgeable about the legacy

Ramon Mejia:

and the history that self immolation has in the anti war movement in the broader

Ramon Mejia:

global movement against Oppression and militarization and war and genocide

Ramon Mejia:

and violence, that's, Aaron's a part of that legacy and, I agree just like how,

Ramon Mejia:

fellow comrades have said he was precise In his words that he was engaging in an

Ramon Mejia:

extreme act of protest but that compared to what the people were experiencing

Ramon Mejia:

in Palestine is not extreme at all.

Ramon Mejia:

Every day, Palestinians are being killed.

Ramon Mejia:

Every day, Palestinians are being engulfed in the flame, just like

Ramon Mejia:

Aaron got engulfed in the flame.

Ramon Mejia:

And, the ruling class, as he's, as Aaron said, the ruling class has

Ramon Mejia:

made this norm, like it's normal.

Ramon Mejia:

I think it's like, The desensitization, it's bringing, it's raising an alarm

Ramon Mejia:

around the desensitization of the violence and the militarized violence

Ramon Mejia:

that both the police, the prisons, the military engages on a day in, day out

Ramon Mejia:

and would become so desensitized that we don't even realize that it's happening.

Ramon Mejia:

It's another person is dead, another, 200 they're just numbers to the wider public.

Ramon Mejia:

I think I don't even think I've finished processing or even started to really

Ramon Mejia:

process what what Aaron's self immolation and his sacrifice means for the wider

Ramon Mejia:

movement, it's definitely It's really engaged, it's really galvanized and

Ramon Mejia:

moved a lot of people and it's also brought forth like the need to like, we

Ramon Mejia:

have to continue building deeper bonds and deeper community with one another

Ramon Mejia:

to continue to strategize and seeing how best we can stop the violence and

Ramon Mejia:

stop this genocide that's happening.

Ramon Mejia:

Yeah, those, it's it's something that I think I'll continue to process as the days

Ramon Mejia:

and the weeks go ahead because in this moment, it's like, how can we respond?

Ramon Mejia:

How can we, answer the call that Aaron put out?

Keagan:

I think there's some good news on that front.

Keagan:

I don't know if you guys saw, but the Michigan primary, over 100,

Keagan:

000 people voted uncommitted.

Keagan:

Which is 10 times what they were hoping, like the mayor of Dearborn once said

Keagan:

that they were hoping to get 10, 000.

Keagan:

And they got over 100, 000 people, which is like a 10 percent of people in all

Keagan:

the counties to say that to make this statement and say we don't support this

Keagan:

and we don't support what you're doing.

Keagan:

I hope that, that shows people look.

Keagan:

, you need to do something about this or else you're gonna lose.

Keagan:

You'll lose Michigan.

Jovanni:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jovanni:

Yeah, I echo all of what you guys shared so far.

Jovanni:

Yeah, it was, I'm still processing as well, but at the same time, it's

Jovanni:

disturbing because It's disturbing in the sense that, there have been other

Jovanni:

ethnic cleansings before, there have been other genocides before, there

Jovanni:

have been there have been, fictitious or fictitious genocides that have been

Jovanni:

tried to, trying to weaponize to get people to, To get people worked up to,

Jovanni:

to consent a, some type of military interventions, I can think of several

Jovanni:

with, where ruling class just blow up things that to try to get consent from

Jovanni:

people like, for the minor thing, they're quick to call anything genocide, they're

Jovanni:

quick to call anything genocide genocide,

Jovanni:

the so called genocide in China, with Uyghurs with no proof whatsoever, the

Jovanni:

so called genocide in, even in Russia so they're quick to call genocide

Jovanni:

everything but when it comes to actual Ethnic cleansing, actual genocide, which

Jovanni:

is live streamed, which is everybody can see, everybody's witnessing, everybody's

Jovanni:

going around the world, everybody's seeing the images everyone is seeing it

Jovanni:

they'll go nope, this is not genocide, nope, technically, this is not genocide,

Jovanni:

and they just to make excuses for it, they do gymnastics, they do backflips,

Jovanni:

they do all kinds of stuff to deny What you're lying little eyes are seeing, are

Jovanni:

watching, you're not really seeing this, this is a fiction of your imagination.

Jovanni:

. When the first time I actually sat down and started thinking about conflict,

Jovanni:

war was with the Panamanian invasion.

Jovanni:

I was a teenager then and I was seeing how the whole media was, was working

Jovanni:

up the media and everything how it was necessary, how it was just in I was just

Jovanni:

so absolutely necessary to intervene in Panama because so much things, so much

Jovanni:

horrible things are happening in Panama.

Jovanni:

We just have to go.

Jovanni:

We just have to go, because Noriega is like the next is like a Hitler incarnated.

Jovanni:

He was actually, I think Bush called him Atilla the Hun.

Jovanni:

That's what Bush called him.

Jovanni:

Atilla the Hun so they worked up the whole mass population, right?

Jovanni:

We have to intervene.

Jovanni:

We have to intervene because so much horrible things is happening in Panama.

Jovanni:

And we saw the invasion in Panama.

Jovanni:

So that was the first time I actually sat down And think about, what this

Jovanni:

all means, what this, how they work people up, how the media work people

Jovanni:

up, how everything's just pretty much connected, and everybody's just pretty

Jovanni:

much joined at the hip, and everybody's just pretty much echoing the same

Jovanni:

messages, and whatnot, just to manipulate you supporting something, right?

Jovanni:

This It's the other way around.

Jovanni:

This is, they're downplaying things, they're downplaying it, they're using

Jovanni:

schematics, they're using, technicalities, they're using all these big words

Jovanni:

and everything, they're trying to manipulate you into Not seeing or telling

Jovanni:

you what you're seeing is not true.

Jovanni:

What you're seeing is Hamas propaganda, the way they say it, being

Jovanni:

deceived, that you're crazy, that you're not, go on with your life.

Jovanni:

Don't think about it.

Jovanni:

Nothing to see here, that's what's frustrating.

Jovanni:

And then when you bring it up, you're gaslighted as if

Jovanni:

it's you that's messed up.

Jovanni:

That's, it's you that's.

Jovanni:

That is wrong, why don't why don't you be like everybody else, just look the

Jovanni:

other way, just live your life, just turn on the TV, just, do whatever, don't

Jovanni:

look this way, nothing to see here.

Jovanni:

That's what's frustrating.

Rachell Tucker:

Absolutely frustrating and.

Rachell Tucker:

It begs the question we go to protests we email and talk, go in person, talk to

Rachell Tucker:

our politicians, the people that say they have the power that speak in our name but

Rachell Tucker:

we're the the people are the ones with the power, and the people, every time we

Rachell Tucker:

get together it is an impressive force.

Rachell Tucker:

But what I really wanted to mention is that he was from San Antonio, not from San

Rachell Tucker:

Antonio, but stationed in San Antonio like where we're at, where Jake and I are at.

Rachell Tucker:

And yesterday we organized a little group of antiwar vets and we went and

Rachell Tucker:

spoke before city council and it was it was pretty powerful because San Antonio

Rachell Tucker:

is called Military City USA and it glorifies the military just the rest

Rachell Tucker:

of the United States does, and the roll call where all of our previous ranks and

Rachell Tucker:

last names were called and then Aaron's name was called three times And you

Rachell Tucker:

look at the faces of the city council people who have been repeatedly, every

Rachell Tucker:

week, people have been coming, every week people demanding that they pass an

Rachell Tucker:

actual permanent ceasefire resolution.

Rachell Tucker:

And, they were just shocked.

Rachell Tucker:

They were shook.

Rachell Tucker:

You could tell that they were paying attention.

Rachell Tucker:

They were actually looking.

Rachell Tucker:

One of them started to tear up.

Rachell Tucker:

And so it's us vets carry, we carry the mirror up to the face of

Rachell Tucker:

the people that always glorify the military and veterans and all of this.

Rachell Tucker:

And we each basically told our, some parts of our story and our good friend Jules

Rachell Tucker:

Vaquera sang part of a song that's called War Criminal from our own experience.

Rachell Tucker:

And it was really powerful.

Rachell Tucker:

And we do what we can and we'll continue to go out and protest but I think what

Rachell Tucker:

Aaron really wanted us to do is continue the fight and call out the being gaslit,

Rachell Tucker:

like you were talking about, Jovanni, and just continue organizing and bringing

Rachell Tucker:

out people because this, we're witnessing the genocide, and even though they deny

Rachell Tucker:

it, I looked at the Army Times just to see what they were talking about Aaron

Rachell Tucker:

Bushnell, before we came into this this meeting, and essentially they just covered

Rachell Tucker:

the facts, and then said some have said that Israel is committing genocide.

Rachell Tucker:

So just leaving it up into the possibility that it's not, and it's just disgusting

Jake Tucker:

One, one kind of quick thought I wanted to, Come back to as I

Jake Tucker:

was listening to other folks talking.

Jake Tucker:

I think it's an open question right now, what's the response for other active

Jake Tucker:

duty military members going to be?

Jake Tucker:

I mentioned just a, when I opened up the impact that, that Chelsea

Jake Tucker:

Manning's courage and leaking of documents and all that had on me.

Jake Tucker:

I was already a dissenter by I remember thinking like actually Chelsea Manning

Jake Tucker:

worked a job that was not all that dissimilar from a job I was working.

Jake Tucker:

I was Intel as she was.

Jake Tucker:

It's just it opened my eyes up into like, how one can resist

Jake Tucker:

rather than just be so angry.

Jake Tucker:

And I'll just call it what it was for me, like nihilistic about everything.

Jake Tucker:

Like I was just hopeless and nihilistic.

Jake Tucker:

People with the strength and the courage to to move something forward and, I

Jake Tucker:

don't think you're necessarily going to see protests or whatever in the form

Jake Tucker:

of errands per se, but I do think, at least it's my hope I can't say for sure,

Jake Tucker:

but I do think the Armed forces, like members of the armed forces, are going

Jake Tucker:

to take, have already taken notice.

Jake Tucker:

It is impossible not to take notice.

Jake Tucker:

And many of them.

Jake Tucker:

Couldn't give you percentages, numbers, or anything like that, but , many

Jake Tucker:

of them are like having extremely complicated thoughts and feelings

Jake Tucker:

about what they are complicit in.

Jake Tucker:

And Aaron named it.

Jake Tucker:

Aaron named what we're complicit in, right?

Jake Tucker:

And then stood up and had the courage to do something about it.

Jake Tucker:

And so I do I just, I wonder what's going to come of this from other

Jake Tucker:

service members, vets too, as well.

Jake Tucker:

But I think The resistance coming from active duty people might be more more

Jake Tucker:

than we've seen since, say, Vietnam or something like that, and those were in

Jake Tucker:

the times of draft and, It's going to, it's going to limit, it's going to limit

Jake Tucker:

the legitimacy of command structures.

Jake Tucker:

It's going to limit limit the effectiveness the legitimacy of

Jake Tucker:

political leadership, and so on within the armed forces, I think.

Jake Tucker:

I'm not saying it's going to cripple it completely, but I'm not saying But

Jake Tucker:

I do wonder what the implications will be in the active duty armed forces.

Jovanni:

I was looking at the the Ken 5 San Antonio news

Jovanni:

channel when they reported it.

Jovanni:

The way they framed it like you said Rachel they stated the

Jovanni:

fact, this is what happened.

Jovanni:

And then they had a they quickly went to some air force spokesperson.

Jovanni:

Uniform.

Jovanni:

He was saying that he was telling us something about, this tragic this,

Jovanni:

that but they initially, but the way they moved this, the way they

Jovanni:

directed, the issue was towards suicide.

Jovanni:

You know how how there is a crisis, and I don't, you don't hear much, you

Jovanni:

don't hear much about it anymore, but I remember back, during the height of Iraq

Jovanni:

and when Iraq , was You know, dwindling down, they were talking about the crisis

Jovanni:

of veteran suicide, 22 veterans take their lives a day, et cetera, right?

Jovanni:

So that's way, that's a way that the the news clip from Cane 5,

Jovanni:

started going towards suicide.

Jovanni:

And at the end the reporter, the person who was.

Jovanni:

Who was the only reporter.

Jovanni:

She talked about the suicide hotline, if you're having thoughts of harming

Jovanni:

yourself you're having thoughts of, this and that, call the suicide hotline.

Jovanni:

That's how she finished her report.

Jovanni:

By, by gearing, by guiding the conversation toward suicide, pretty

Jovanni:

much It takes away from the intent of Aaron, what Aaron was intending.

Jovanni:

It takes away and they shape it, they frame it as if Aaron was, was

Jovanni:

dealing with some mental health issues versus what was the actual message

Jovanni:

that Aaron was trying to convey.

Jovanni:

I've seen in other posts saying that, that we're when I saw a post somewhere where it

Jovanni:

was from an article, one of the articles I read about Aaron saying that, we're often

Jovanni:

called heroes, when we go out, you know, And, to wars and, die and kill for some

Jovanni:

military objective, we're called heroes.

Jovanni:

But when we give up our life for a cause, when we give up our life for

Jovanni:

for justice, our mental health is put in question, so some to that effect.

Ramon Mejia:

I think it's that that someone cannot be radicalized to take

Ramon Mejia:

extreme action it's only ever seen as irrational when someone is taking

Ramon Mejia:

extreme action, when it's done on behalf of the government and its

Ramon Mejia:

foreign policy, it's seen as rational.

Ramon Mejia:

And I think Aaron's, and I said I think still processing is still thinking,

Ramon Mejia:

but it's important that for folks to acknowledge that, Aaron wore his uniform

Ramon Mejia:

not out of a sense of obligation to the military or in honoring of the

Ramon Mejia:

military , that was his resignation.

Ramon Mejia:

Not only was that his resignation, but because in U.

Ramon Mejia:

S.

Ramon Mejia:

society and because of the way that War is propagated and sold

Ramon Mejia:

to the public the public at large invisibilizes the harm done to black

Ramon Mejia:

and brown and poor people and, around the world and the wars that we wage.

Ramon Mejia:

So it's invisibilized.

Ramon Mejia:

Palestinians are being bombarded and sieges laid on them, and being killed

Ramon Mejia:

every single day and the public, goes on.

Ramon Mejia:

So I think that image of a, you don't have to know Aaron, but an

Ramon Mejia:

image of a young white American, troop you see the fatigues, you see

Ramon Mejia:

the uniforms, and they're in flames.

Ramon Mejia:

It's going to stop you and you're going to have to like assess and

Ramon Mejia:

process like what you're actually witnessing, because up until that point.

Ramon Mejia:

I don't know, like, how people that aren't politicized, but,

Ramon Mejia:

scrolling through social media, on the news, you're seeing the images.

Ramon Mejia:

Palestinians are showing you the image of the suffering that they're enduring

Ramon Mejia:

and people go on their day to day.

Ramon Mejia:

And I feel like the public that hasn't been acknowledging what's happening in

Ramon Mejia:

Palestine are now like paying attention.

Ramon Mejia:

So I think the goal like of us is to center what aaron was censoring was

Ramon Mejia:

like, was the genocide, to stop the genocide in Gaza and the complicity,

Ramon Mejia:

both like at the wider at large, but then also I think also like at the uniform,

Ramon Mejia:

and people in the military, confront

Ramon Mejia:

what you're a part of and readdress and recess your commitment to the ethos of

Ramon Mejia:

what America, what America sells you, like life, liberty, pursuit of happiness,

Ramon Mejia:

like justice it's all distorted for the U.

Ramon Mejia:

S.

Ramon Mejia:

military and the U.

Ramon Mejia:

S.

Ramon Mejia:

government, but those are still like values that on a personal level,

Ramon Mejia:

like you could Refrain to what they mean to you and, being a part of a

Ramon Mejia:

trillions and trillions of dollars, military machine doesn't bring liberty.

Ramon Mejia:

It brings pain and suffering.

Ramon Mejia:

And yeah, I think Aaron wanted us, jolt, people into action to stop the

Ramon Mejia:

weapons shipments to Israel, stop the diplomatic cover of of genocide, and

Ramon Mejia:

the occupation stop, the complicity and the actual material support

Ramon Mejia:

to the genocide that's happening.

Keagan:

We're seeing in play out in Gaza and also in Ukraine just the fact that,

Keagan:

modern war is a meat grinder and it just eats people and material up and If

Keagan:

we're not if we don't take a step back to think about why we're doing this,

Keagan:

why it's happening, who benefits from it, then we're really doing everyone

Keagan:

that dies a disservice, I think.

Keagan:

And, it's just I do hope that, I hope what Aaron did is inspiring

Keagan:

conversations of people in the military.

Keagan:

I, like you, Jake, I was in the intelligence community.

Keagan:

And I felt like very alone, with a lot of my thoughts and the way that I felt.

Keagan:

I had a few friends luckily, that I could talk about things with,

Keagan:

but most of the time, you just have to do what you're a part of.

Keagan:

And I think it's, it's you.

Keagan:

When someone de decide makes a decision.

Keagan:

To stop doing that in such a visible and public way, it, like Ramón said you

Keagan:

have to take notice, you have to stop and think, and, we're really living in

Keagan:

a different world, now that things are different, things are totally different

Keagan:

now, because we have to think about what made this young man do this?

Keagan:

And a lot of people, like you said, that are not politicized have to think

Keagan:

about things and have to wrestle with, some cognitive dissonance and maybe some

Keagan:

uncomfortable feelings about what the military is and what we're supporting

Keagan:

with our dollars and our money.

Keagan:

And I just think that I do hope that it's sparked some people thinking

Keagan:

about doing something else or, finishing out their contract and

Keagan:

just being like, okay, I'm done.

Keagan:

Hopefully it does.

Jovanni:

One of his posts on his social media stated Many of us

Jovanni:

like to ask ourselves, What would I do if I was alive doing slavery?

Jovanni:

Or Jim Crow South, or Apartheid.

Jovanni:

What would I do if my country was committing genocide?

Jovanni:

The answer is, you're doing it, right now.

Jovanni:

Just like Jake was talking about how since October 7th, folks here in San

Jovanni:

Antonio has been going to city council every Wednesday, bring it up to a city

Jovanni:

council members, because just to give context of what Jake mentioned, San

Jovanni:

Antonio is a sister city of Tel Aviv.

Jovanni:

It's a friendship city of Tel Aviv.

Jovanni:

We've been asking people here in Santa, we've been filling city council

Jovanni:

every Wednesday with, with people, and just asking in every which way.

Jovanni:

Upside down, left every which way, to our mayor, Ron Nirenberg, this

Jovanni:

progressive, person from, supposed to always talked about San Antonio being a

Jovanni:

compassionate city, and Etcetera etcetera.

Jovanni:

So we've been going there every week every people taking off their time,

Jovanni:

people getting off work early, just to go to City Council every day at five

Jovanni:

every Wednesday at five it starts, to ask him every, any which way to drop

Jovanni:

some, a simple act, just to drop the Friendship City status with Tel Aviv.

Jovanni:

That's the simplest thing you can do, and people there,

Jovanni:

People tell their narratives.

Jovanni:

We have Palestinian people talking about, how people are

Jovanni:

trapped in Gaza, they can't leave.

Jovanni:

And, we have a Jewish person come up, there as well saying I'm a Jewish

Jovanni:

person and, they can't do this in my name, and they're all They're they're

Jovanni:

manipulating us and, we want you to end this friendship, just this friendship

Jovanni:

sitting with Tel Aviv and every, and nope, that's his answer is no, he's supposed

Jovanni:

to be this progressive icon here in San Antonio and he has refused so far and his

Jovanni:

his statements are that that this is not, our friendship status is not politicized,

Jovanni:

it's not political it's, People to people dialogue and blah, blah, this and that

Jovanni:

but yeah so with that statement that he says there, that Aaron says there, what,

Jovanni:

what would, what would people do, if, you ask yourself, what would you do if

Jovanni:

you're doing, living doing slavery, you're doing, you're living, doing Jim Crow era,

Jovanni:

if you're living, doing apartheid, what would you do, if you're living in, if you

Jovanni:

could, if your government was, if your country was committing genocide, if you're

Jovanni:

living in Nazi Germany, what would you do?

Jovanni:

And the answer is right there.

Jovanni:

I know what Aaron, I know what what Ron Nuremberg would do.

Jovanni:

Ron Nuremberg would, would, would go with it.

Jovanni:

Any

Ramon Mejia:

thoughts on that?

Ramon Mejia:

Just real quick,

Jake Tucker:

he would literally meet with Joe Biden

Ramon Mejia:

today.

Ramon Mejia:

This was happening

Jake Tucker:

literally today.

Jake Tucker:

Ron Nuremberg's meeting with Joe Biden.

Jake Tucker:

Genocide Joe and Ron Nuremberg together at last.

Jake Tucker:

It's a little

Ramon Mejia:

too perfect.

Ramon Mejia:

Yeah.

Ramon Mejia:

Go ahead, Rick.

Ramon Mejia:

No, go, you go.

Ramon Mejia:

No, I think I can't presume to know what I would do, in other

Ramon Mejia:

time periods and in other events I can imagine like what I would do.

Ramon Mejia:

And it's okay, I'm here.

Ramon Mejia:

What is like the most important thing that I can do today to

Ramon Mejia:

make the world a better place?

Ramon Mejia:

What is it that I can do within like my means and within my, my,

Ramon Mejia:

my individual power to, to address.

Ramon Mejia:

The harms that are being, committed in our society and the harms that

Ramon Mejia:

are being committed the extreme harms that are being committed, the genocide

Ramon Mejia:

that's being committed in Gaza.

Ramon Mejia:

But I'd want to, I'd want to say and try and answer that question that I would want

Ramon Mejia:

to do any and everything within my means.

Ramon Mejia:

To make it stop, right?

Ramon Mejia:

So it's don't know I agree and, and y'all, when y'all are sharing about every

Ramon Mejia:

Wednesday going to City Council, and it's happening here in Dallas too, I've sent

Ramon Mejia:

emails to specific council members, both veterans hey, I want to meet with y'all

Ramon Mejia:

we want to, there's a crew, a community of us that we want to meet, and I come

Ramon Mejia:

at it from I, in the emails and like in the outreach, like coming at it from

Ramon Mejia:

a very hey, like there's one council member, like his mother was a teacher.

Ramon Mejia:

I'm like, my mom was a teacher, a retired teacher and he's a representative of

Ramon Mejia:

the community that my mom was teaching.

Ramon Mejia:

So I'm like, I want to like, try and make that connection.

Ramon Mejia:

Same thing with another council member, like he's a Marine.

Ramon Mejia:

Like a veteran deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, and I'm like, he's comes from

Ramon Mejia:

a very similar neighborhood that I come from, in Oak Cliff working class Latino

Ramon Mejia:

community and so on I want to bring that, try and make that connection of that

Ramon Mejia:

we're, we cut, that we're all like, very similar and more, we have more in common

Ramon Mejia:

than those that, Genuinely have the power and I feel I don't want to beat my head

Ramon Mejia:

against the door and being like, continue to go and do the same thing over and

Ramon Mejia:

over and over again and get no response.

Ramon Mejia:

I'd want to like.

Ramon Mejia:

Build collectively like a community and and find comrades and friends to

Ramon Mejia:

continue to strategize and restrategize the tactics that we're engaged in order

Ramon Mejia:

to, apply pressure to these folks and and these Folks in, in city governments

Ramon Mejia:

and local governments and, federal government, all that state, and this is,

Ramon Mejia:

what they understand is votes and money, and it's like, how can we go beyond

Ramon Mejia:

that and not say we're only not going to be, like, uncommitted, but we're,

Ramon Mejia:

like, we're withdrawing our consent to govern in that sense we're no longer

Ramon Mejia:

going to be, like, engaged in the system and that, so when I think about it at

Ramon Mejia:

the city council level, we're in the city, at the city level engaging other

Ramon Mejia:

organizations, do photo ops with them.

Ramon Mejia:

The electives and seeing going to them and maybe trying to appeal to them.

Ramon Mejia:

I feel like there's so many ways that we can continue to try.

Ramon Mejia:

And I know folks have been trying all different kinds of tactics and strategies.

Ramon Mejia:

And it's we have to continue figuring that out.

Ramon Mejia:

I think that's, we're at a position with no power.

Ramon Mejia:

And we have to create that power for our community.

Ramon Mejia:

And try and make way for them, for us.

Rachell Tucker:

Yeah, no, exactly.

Rachell Tucker:

I think this question and and the quote by Bushnell is really good, right?

Rachell Tucker:

Because so many times, there's so many dystopian films, right?

Rachell Tucker:

During the Holocaust during massive fascists.

Rachell Tucker:

Oppression during all the bad things in the world, right?

Rachell Tucker:

And there's always like a group of people resisting.

Rachell Tucker:

So it's You know, it's something that, for some reason, is very hard for some,

Rachell Tucker:

especially politicians, but, forget them, but for some people to actually

Rachell Tucker:

see that connection, and so many people.

Rachell Tucker:

Especially politicians say like never again and like literally on

Rachell Tucker:

January 27th I think it was like International Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Rachell Tucker:

And this was, there was a genocide happening in Palestine.

Rachell Tucker:

And I think, essentially we can ask the question, like, where would

Rachell Tucker:

the same thing like where would we be during the Holocaust, right?

Rachell Tucker:

But in Jim Crow South and Apartheid there's a racial question too which

Rachell Tucker:

I think you mentioned earlier, Ramón that the racism, of course, comes

Rachell Tucker:

into this who is human and who is not, unfortunately and us that have been out

Rachell Tucker:

in the streets, that have been protesting, doing whatever we can know that.

Rachell Tucker:

That's a bunch of bullshit.

Rachell Tucker:

That's imperialism.

Rachell Tucker:

And so I think one of the, one of the things that is really important

Rachell Tucker:

about this question is to talk about agency and like you were talking about

Rachell Tucker:

Ramón, like the different ways that we can activate it and practice it.

Rachell Tucker:

Right?

Rachell Tucker:

Because I think like once, when somebody comes to consciousness.

Rachell Tucker:

And they're like, I need to do something.

Rachell Tucker:

I need to get involved.

Rachell Tucker:

They figured they try out all sorts of ways of getting involved

Rachell Tucker:

of protesting, of speaking out.

Rachell Tucker:

Many of us did it within the military.

Rachell Tucker:

We finally found our agency and fought back within it.

Rachell Tucker:

I think those on this call, we know what we would do,

Rachell Tucker:

because we're doing it, right?

Rachell Tucker:

And I think, essentially the power is in the people, and the more, that's

Rachell Tucker:

what we have to focus on is keep organizing the people, keep making those

Rachell Tucker:

connections of how essentially, the money that is used to drop bombs on our

Rachell Tucker:

brothers and sisters in Palestine and elsewhere You know, but mainly in the

Rachell Tucker:

genocide that's happening in Palestine right now is our tax dollars, right?

Rachell Tucker:

What can that be used for instead of that, right?

Rachell Tucker:

All the basic needs that we are lacking for here, and I don't want

Rachell Tucker:

to make it sound, like it's all about money, but it's essentially it's about

Rachell Tucker:

it's about like people power, right?

Rachell Tucker:

And how we're able to Together, collectively, use our agency to fight

Rachell Tucker:

for the things that we need and want and deserve, which is to stop, it's our duty

Rachell Tucker:

to end imperialism within the United States, within the Balearic Islands.

Rachell Tucker:

It's our duty to ensure that the rest of the country, self determines.

Rachell Tucker:

And the rest of the world self determines, and within the country as well.

Rachell Tucker:

And I just really love that question that Aaron left us with because

Rachell Tucker:

it pushes us to, to be better, to do better, and do more, and more

Jovanni:

effectively.

Jovanni:

So let me ask you something.

Jovanni:

So the people I mentioned above all in the intro, minus, I believe, two people

Jovanni:

all of them use Southern Malaysian as a form of protest in different eras.

Jovanni:

The earliest one here in the list that I mentioned above was in the Vietnam era.

Jovanni:

The other ones were doing the the wars in the Middle East.

Jovanni:

What do you feel is the connection between Aaron's protests, the protests of the

Jovanni:

people mentioned above, and the military?

Jovanni:

And I'll give you where I'm going with this, because I recall,

Jovanni:

now we have social media, right?

Jovanni:

And social media, like I said earlier, we're witnessing the first time,

Jovanni:

the first genocide ethnic cleansing in history, where it's being live

Jovanni:

streamed, where everybody can see it.

Jovanni:

In the past, people Didn't have that luxury.

Jovanni:

In the past, I remember when I would, when we deployed to Bosnia,

Jovanni:

for example, we were the majority of the American population didn't know

Jovanni:

what was going on in Yugoslavia.

Jovanni:

We were briefed by our our I forgot, these the intel people came and

Jovanni:

briefed us what was going on before we deployed, and that's what we relied on.

Jovanni:

We, that's the only thing we relied on.

Jovanni:

We relied on what was given to us, and that's how we made

Jovanni:

sense of what was going on.

Jovanni:

But Today we have the ability to catch them in their lies, which before we

Jovanni:

didn't we'll find out years later that they lied to us, like the the

Jovanni:

what happened in the Vietnam with, what was it, the Potempkin what was it

Jovanni:

called, the Potempkin, the Potempkin.

Jovanni:

What was it?

Jovanni:

The Potempkin, yeah.

Jovanni:

Yeah, the the, turned out it was a lie.

Jovanni:

But now we can catch them in their lies in real time, what

Jovanni:

is this doing to the military?

Jovanni:

What do you think, what's affecting things going to the to the rank and

Jovanni:

file of the military in your opinion?

Jake Tucker:

Can I combine both the last topic and this one a little bit here?

Jake Tucker:

Is that cool?

Jake Tucker:

Alright, I'll just go for it.

Jake Tucker:

Sure.

Jake Tucker:

So I think there's an incredible amount of depth to the social media

Jake Tucker:

posts that we were talking about.

Jake Tucker:

While we met Aaron briefly, I don't know, I didn't know Aaron enough To

Jake Tucker:

say exactly where he specifically was going with this, but if you look

Jake Tucker:

at what he's talking about, right?

Jake Tucker:

If you're alive during slavery, during Jim Crow, during apartheid during

Jake Tucker:

a genocidal period of your if your country is committing genocide, right?

Jake Tucker:

And you're doing it now, right?

Jake Tucker:

The examples he lists out there are actually very long struggles.

Jake Tucker:

For more UN videos visit www.

Jake Tucker:

un.

Jake Tucker:

org these are not struggles that we might get taught a little bit

Jake Tucker:

in our books There's a thing called Jim Crow, and it was terrible, and

Jake Tucker:

MLK came along, and boom then we had the Civil Rights Act, and now the U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

is not racist or something, but we know that these are very long struggles,

Jake Tucker:

and also we've never completely overcome these struggles either.

Jake Tucker:

These struggles are still here with us today and, their legacy lives on.

Jake Tucker:

of the struggles and of the oppressions of the horrors of these

Jake Tucker:

oppressions live with us today.

Jake Tucker:

And there's a broader question of okay, so how do we end these things?

Jake Tucker:

And I, I do think, yeah, while social media moves, moves

Jake Tucker:

information quicker, it also moves confusion quicker at the same time.

Jake Tucker:

And, and I can't as we were talking about at the top don't believe

Jake Tucker:

your, don't believe your lying eyes, believe the government, believe

Jake Tucker:

the media, believe the, whatever, believe the social media posts,

Jake Tucker:

believe this, that, the other thing.

Jake Tucker:

And we, there's a podcast on Rania Khalek's Dispatches sometime last week or

Jake Tucker:

the week before with guest Mateo Capasso.

Jake Tucker:

I don't remember exactly what the name of the episode was, but

Jake Tucker:

anyways, anyone can look it up.

Jake Tucker:

And it was talking about one of the things that it was talking

Jake Tucker:

about among many other things.

Jake Tucker:

It's a great episode.

Jake Tucker:

The guest Mateo was talking about The necessity of revolutionary patience, of

Jake Tucker:

patience in building our movements, but not patience as in we sit back and just

Jake Tucker:

chill, but the patience to build it.

Jake Tucker:

movements capable, organizations capable of confronting power, of actually,

Jake Tucker:

we can we're all seeing that we're building things, but our sources of

Jake Tucker:

power are not responding to this.

Jake Tucker:

And so he was speaking about it in the context of the axis of resistance.

Jake Tucker:

Largely, and he instructs us, basically, to move at the

Jake Tucker:

historical tempo of the South.

Jake Tucker:

And so it's what does that mean, to move at the historical tempo of the South?

Jake Tucker:

There's a couple things we can take out of that, right?

Jake Tucker:

Like, when we think of the South, the global South, or as we're starting

Jake Tucker:

to call it now, the global majority, but what we're talking about are the

Jake Tucker:

colonized and oppressed peoples of the world over, basically since colonization

Jake Tucker:

began like basically these are the people that white supremacy imperialism

Jake Tucker:

under monarchical and then capitalist governments basically called too stupid.

Jake Tucker:

to poor, to backwards, to uncivilized, whatever, to be able to organize

Jake Tucker:

themselves for liberation.

Jake Tucker:

To be able to even if they did organize themselves for liberation,

Jake Tucker:

to be able to govern themselves and whatever other racist tropes exist.

Jake Tucker:

existed and continue to exist until today, right?

Jake Tucker:

You still have I think it was Joseph Burrell basically calling the global south

Jake Tucker:

the jungle and Europe the garden, right?

Jake Tucker:

He's the EU whatever head guy, but so these things still absolutely exist

Jake Tucker:

with us and they imbue itself in the language of the genocide as literal.

Jake Tucker:

Israeli, powerful figures call Palestinians human animals

Jake Tucker:

and all this sort of stuff.

Jake Tucker:

But what has happened is the global south, not not patience in the sense of Showing

Jake Tucker:

out, but patience in the sense of like the struggle needs to always continue forward.

Jake Tucker:

We need to build institutions that can move us forward.

Jake Tucker:

And when we have a moment, we need to be able to to strike back for our liberation.

Jake Tucker:

And what does it, I want to type into the, what does this have to do with the U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

military, right?

Jake Tucker:

The U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

military is the tip of the spear, if you will.

Jake Tucker:

It is the cutting edge of the US imperialism.

Jake Tucker:

US imperialism means a lot of different things.

Jake Tucker:

It means financial dom domination, it means dollar hegemony but the way that

Jake Tucker:

most of us think of imperialism or the US is 800 military bases around the world.

Jake Tucker:

It means the military.

Jake Tucker:

Troops bombs, armaments, now drones, and all these different things, right?

Jake Tucker:

But one thing that's very clear,

Jake Tucker:

at least basically most of my basically my entire adult lifetime is that The U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

can have every advantage in terms of monetary expenditure, in terms

Jake Tucker:

of the highest forms of technology, in terms of being able to control,

Jake Tucker:

control the narrative with Social media, mainstream media, and so on,

Jake Tucker:

and all these different advantages.

Jake Tucker:

But the thing that it cannot do is win wars.

Jake Tucker:

And we've been at war in the larger theater of what's called the Middle

Jake Tucker:

East, West Asia for decades on decades.

Jake Tucker:

And In many of the sub theaters of that larger theater,

Jake Tucker:

what we are seeing is the U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

and their allies continue to lose, just continue to lose.

Jake Tucker:

Look at who we, who the axis of resistance is.

Jake Tucker:

The axis of resistance is Iran, who has been sanctioned For years on years and

Jake Tucker:

on years basically has been like the U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

has tried to isolate Iran since the Islamic Revolution in 1979, the axis of

Jake Tucker:

resistance is Hezbollah which has existed since 1982, but since Since the first

Jake Tucker:

decade of the 2000s, Israel has found it impossible to invade and occupy Hezbollah.

Jake Tucker:

The Axis of Resistance are the popular mobilization units of Iraq

Jake Tucker:

and Syria, which were initially stood up to fight ISIS, but are also anti

Jake Tucker:

imperialist resistance organizations.

Jake Tucker:

The axis of resistance is Hamas and Islamic resistance.

Jake Tucker:

The axis of resistance is Ansar Allah in Yemen, who defeated Saudi Arabia with U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

funding and support.

Jake Tucker:

And every tool, intelligence and all that, every tool that the U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

could give, the much stronger Saudi Arabia, they still were not

Jake Tucker:

able to beat Ansar Allah in Yemen.

Jake Tucker:

And so now Yemen is basically the ruling government of the

Jake Tucker:

majority of peoples in Yemen.

Jake Tucker:

And so what.

Jake Tucker:

What this has to do with the U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

military is that the war,

Jake Tucker:

the war in the larger theater now has a singular focal point on the sub theater of

Jake Tucker:

Palestine, where Liberation was announced.

Jake Tucker:

Liberation was declared on October 7th.

Jake Tucker:

But this is not a force that the Israelis can actually go toe to toe with.

Jake Tucker:

That's been demonstrated as well.

Jake Tucker:

Every time the Israelis try to come in and occupy Gaza, they

Jake Tucker:

get kicked out every single time.

Jake Tucker:

They cannot execute their goals there militarily.

Jake Tucker:

And so just like the United States.

Jake Tucker:

Just like the United States does in Iraq, Afghanistan, just like we did in Libya,

Jake Tucker:

just like we've done in Syria, maybe to a little bit lesser of a degree, or

Jake Tucker:

at least a less, I shouldn't say lesser degree, a less overt degree all the U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

can really do.

Jake Tucker:

They cannot execute their goals militarily.

Jake Tucker:

All they can really do is terrorize, complete cause complete

Jake Tucker:

devastation and basically just try to, we, we're accustomed in the U.

Jake Tucker:

S.

Jake Tucker:

to just talking about body counts, right?

Jake Tucker:

What are body counts?

Jake Tucker:

They are not an indication of you winning the war.

Jake Tucker:

If you have to continuously climb the number of body counts, it

Jake Tucker:

means that you are not winning.

Jake Tucker:

You're not winning your political objectives, which are supposed to be

Jake Tucker:

the basis of the war in the first place.

Jake Tucker:

And Aaron has connected something that I don't know that is part of even

Jake Tucker:

the discussions in the protests and the protest, like the organizations

Jake Tucker:

organizing protests and whatever, at least I haven't heard it a ton.

Jake Tucker:

But that it is like the genocide is.

Jake Tucker:

Part of this broader theater of war, which has been raging for decades, and it's

Jake Tucker:

one that is the uss, it's one that is Isra Israels, it's been Saudi Arabia's.

Jake Tucker:

I don't want to go too far on this because I don't know, it seems Saudi

Jake Tucker:

Arabia has at least removed itself from the hostilities at least to a certain

Jake Tucker:

degree since it's ceasefire with Ansar law and its reproachment with Iran.

Jake Tucker:

Not sure on that.

Jake Tucker:

But anyways, this is part of a broader process.

Jake Tucker:

And right now the focus is on, and as the axis of resistance

Jake Tucker:

is focused upon liberation of Palestine for this particular time

Jake Tucker:

of the broader theater of war.

Jake Tucker:

And Aaron has connected something you Through this protest that I

Jake Tucker:

think hasn't been spoken about or touched upon all that much.

Jake Tucker:

And I, anyways I'll stop there because I'd love to see y

Jake Tucker:

hear y'all's thoughts on that.

Jake Tucker:

If you think there's coherence to what I'm saying here.

Jake Tucker:

If you think I'm off base on all of this,

Jovanni:

Ramon Romano, you have to leave in a few.

Jovanni:

You wanna go while you gotta go at it and before you leave.

Ramon Mejia:

Yeah.

Ramon Mejia:

What specifically?

Ramon Mejia:

I think.

Ramon Mejia:

Yeah, I don't I'm still trying to process a lot of the what Jake was saying, but

Ramon Mejia:

definitely feel like there's definitely like a focal point of being able to

Ramon Mejia:

pinpoint what's happening in Gaza and the wider connection that the U.

Ramon Mejia:

S.

Ramon Mejia:

and Israel and its allies wage war on.

Ramon Mejia:

And, around the world in other areas yeah, I don't know.

Ramon Mejia:

Just, I'm still thinking.

Ramon Mejia:

Yeah.

Ramon Mejia:

But definitely yeah, I definitely feel that point for sure.

Jovanni:

Before you leave, you want to close out with anything?

Ramon Mejia:

Oh, no, I can wait to hear a little bit.

Ramon Mejia:

I have five minutes or so.

Ramon Mejia:

But definitely just, yeah, I wanted to just real quickly appreciate, being

Ramon Mejia:

able to share space with you all and be able to think through and process

Ramon Mejia:

this moment and where we're at and being able to lift up Aaron's Life

Ramon Mejia:

and really stern politics and vision for what we needed to do into action.

Ramon Mejia:

And yeah, just look forward to continue like those combos and continues

Jovanni:

to deepen for sure.

Jovanni:

Anyone?

Jovanni:

Thank you.

Jovanni:

Ramón.

Jovanni:

Anyone else want to comment on add to or comment on, on, on what Jake stated?

Rachell Tucker:

I can go.

Rachell Tucker:

I think it's really since you put it like that where it's like Aaron was

Rachell Tucker:

hitting at something in terms of a bigger like macro look at the whole, like

Rachell Tucker:

the war and the genocide, and like the future, actually not future because it's

Rachell Tucker:

happening And aggressions on, on Yemen, on Hezbollah, on, on Syria, even on the U.

Rachell Tucker:

S.

Rachell Tucker:

bases that should not exist in Iraq.

Rachell Tucker:

Still but they do.

Rachell Tucker:

And so I think, I saw in the news that essentially he was also privy to

Rachell Tucker:

information and about deployments Air Force deployments to the Gaza Strip to

Rachell Tucker:

right in the tunnels or clear tunnels or whatever whatever they do, whatever

Rachell Tucker:

the Air Force can do in the area.

Rachell Tucker:

Thank you.

Rachell Tucker:

And I think there is a lot of things that, that we're, we as general public

Rachell Tucker:

are not privy to that the Pentagon decides and moves and shifts military

Rachell Tucker:

members like PONS for their goals or for their main access to the Middle East,

Rachell Tucker:

which is Israel their partner and so I think it's a bigger conversation, right?

Rachell Tucker:

And I think we, we can probably dedicate a whole show to that and it's important

Rachell Tucker:

because it is geopolitical politics and it will affect us all in so many ways.

Rachell Tucker:

I did want to mention obviously the military's been in a

Rachell Tucker:

recruitment crisis for some time.

Rachell Tucker:

And then also that the people the soldiers that have been deported, deployed to

Rachell Tucker:

the border are also struggling with that emotion that emotional And wait, right?

Rachell Tucker:

The moral injury that comes with a lot of soldiers being black and brown

Rachell Tucker:

where their parents, maybe their first generation immigrants and then, it's a,

Rachell Tucker:

I think one of the first time I noticed a big shift was when during the Black

Rachell Tucker:

Lives Matter protests, where the uprisings against police brutality happened in

Rachell Tucker:

2020 soldiers were used against our own ourselves against their own people.

Rachell Tucker:

And, More, I think more and more, the conflict between what the military is

Rachell Tucker:

supposed to do according to the ruling class and what they talk about that it is.

Rachell Tucker:

Is super duper exposed and more and more us working class people that join

Rachell Tucker:

the military are just like reaching a point that we, that it's impossible,

Rachell Tucker:

like the bribe doesn't work anymore, I think that's I hope that makes sense.

Ramon Mejia:

Thanks so much, y'all.

Ramon Mejia:

I'm gonna jump out.

Ramon Mejia:

Appreciate y'all.

Jovanni:

Thanks.

Jovanni:

Ramón.

Jovanni:

Thanks,

Jake Tucker:

Ramón.

Jake Tucker:

Thank you for your time.

Jovanni:

I don't know.

Jovanni:

Yeah, going back on what Jake was mentioning and the connection

Jovanni:

that Aaron made with this whole ordeal I think you mentioned it.

Jovanni:

Jake and I met Aaron briefly.

Jovanni:

About two years ago, and he was at a we were actually at a rally.

Jovanni:

I think Jake was leading it.

Jovanni:

Weren't you organizing that rally for a local kid, I believe he was 16 years

Jovanni:

old, that got shot by the police in McDonald's while he was having a hamburger

Jovanni:

with his with his girlfriend, and the police just pulled him out of his car.

Jovanni:

Because the day before, Eric Cantu, yeah, his name was Eric Cantu, the day

Jovanni:

before something happened between him and that police officer, the police

Jovanni:

officer recognized them in the McDonald's and decided to to, I don't know, arrest

Jovanni:

them or whatnot and drag them out.

Jovanni:

Tried to drag him out of his car and pulled his gun and shot him,

Jovanni:

I think shot him several times actually, shot him and the girlfriend.

Jovanni:

He survived.

Jovanni:

But going back to the, so we did a so Jay, I think you were organizing

Jovanni:

the the rally in front of the McDonald's where he was shot at, right?

Jovanni:

And I was wearing my About Face shirt or IVAW shirt, can't

Jovanni:

remember which shirt I was wearing.

Jovanni:

I was, and we were just talking, we were wrapping up, was cleaning up,

Jovanni:

was, wrapping up all the cables for the PA system that we're using and

Jovanni:

everything, and then this kid showed up.

Jovanni:

And started talking to us.

Jovanni:

He by shirt caught his attention and he was talking to us and said he told

Jovanni:

us that he was Air Force and he's been in San Antonio X amount of time.

Jovanni:

He said, and then we just started talking, and he asked us

Jovanni:

where's that, he liked our shirt.

Jovanni:

I told him, yes, it's a it's a veterans organization shirt about

Jovanni:

faith, veterans against the war.

Jovanni:

I gave him a little, I told him to look us up online.

Jovanni:

And there's just a few of us here in San Antonio, etc.

Jovanni:

And that was it.

Jovanni:

That was that was a little a stretch of a conversation.

Jovanni:

We didn't we never saw him again after that, but that was like two years ago.

Jovanni:

And I was reminded by that, actually, this when was it?

Jovanni:

Tuesday.

Jovanni:

When we met Tuesday Rachel reminded us of that brief encounter that we had with him.

Jovanni:

Yeah going back to what Jake was saying, I think Jake, you are correct

Jovanni:

the Israel and the United States, both Israel, because this is not an Israeli

Jovanni:

genocide, this is an American Israeli genocide, because Israel would not

Jovanni:

be able to do what it does without the financial support, without the

Jovanni:

diplomatic support, without the political support of the United States, Israel

Jovanni:

is a country, I think it's about six million people Israeli citizens, right?

Jovanni:

There are more people that live in Israel, right?

Jovanni:

But the Palestinians that live in Israel or the Palestinian

Jovanni:

that lives in Palestine, Nagapai, Palestine, which Israel control

Jovanni:

they're not Israeli citizens, right?

Jovanni:

So Israel control their lives.

Jovanni:

There are about 5 million.

Jovanni:

Of them and Israel control their lives, but they have no citizen rights.

Jovanni:

That's why Israel is an apartheid state, but Israel is losing.

Jovanni:

It's losing credibility, it's losing tactically on the ground.

Jovanni:

It's losing diplomatically around the world.

Jovanni:

The, they used to, Beat us on the head with telling us that, for criticizing

Jovanni:

Israel, we're anti Semitic they used to, but that's not working anymore.

Jovanni:

It's not working anymore.

Jovanni:

So they're getting more aggressive.

Jovanni:

They're getting more aggressive in, on, on media, they're getting more

Jovanni:

aggressive on Shabbat Shalom on the media on attacking the protests and

Jovanni:

everything because they're, because the old saying is, the emperor has no clothes.

Jovanni:

They're in it naked right now.

Jovanni:

Both Israel and the United States and Great Britain and the EU.

Jovanni:

The whole West right now, it's in a, it's in a nude right now.

Jovanni:

Everyone can see for what they are.

Jovanni:

The West has been dictating to the global majority for years now.

Jovanni:

You need to do this.

Jovanni:

You need to do that.

Jovanni:

Human rights, this, human rights, that and this and that and blah, blah,

Jovanni:

blah, blah, this and that, right?

Jovanni:

But right now they have nothing to fall on.

Jovanni:

Right now, everyone is seeing this.

Jovanni:

Everyone is seeing what's happening.

Jovanni:

And everyone is seeing that the West is going, is getting out of their way

Jovanni:

to justify what Israel is doing, to protect Israel, to criminalize those

Jovanni:

who attempt to, to bring that out or who protested what Israel is doing.

Jovanni:

People have lost their jobs.

Jovanni:

People have been fired.

Jovanni:

I think there are laws in, they have laws in Germany and France

Jovanni:

where they made it illegal to display Israeli Palestinian flags.

Jovanni:

We're passing the symbols.

Jovanni:

I think you get fined.

Jovanni:

I think it was in Great Britain where people or the UK where people were

Jovanni:

using parachutes, little parachute figures and stuff like that to, to,

Jovanni:

and they were getting fined for that, because they're, because they were.

Jovanni:

Quote unquote supporting tourism for flashing those things, so the world is

Jovanni:

seeing how repressive the West can get once its credibility is put on trial,

Jovanni:

you gotta PM MP, an MP, a minister of parliament in, in, in Spain that called

Jovanni:

out Israel and called out to sanction Israel and she got relieved, she got, she

Jovanni:

had to step down, from her post, so we're seeing that, And the, and what Jake said

Jovanni:

about American empire, so American empire, an empire is a system that we live in.

Jovanni:

It's not a particular state, it's a system that we're living

Jovanni:

that is led by the United States.

Jovanni:

And we're seeing it's in retreat.

Jovanni:

It's been in retreat from at least 2000 and beyond.

Jovanni:

It's been in retreat since then, at least.

Jovanni:

And as they're retreating, they're becoming more and more

Jake Tucker:

aggressive.

Jake Tucker:

Just one second, I don't know if I'd say retreat, decay, maybe.

Jake Tucker:

Decay more than retreat.

Jake Tucker:

They're getting more aggressive.

Jovanni:

They're getting more aggressive, yes.

Jake Tucker:

Anyways, I just wanted to make that.

Jovanni:

With the retreat comes the decay.

Jovanni:

Oh, with the decay comes the retreat.

Jovanni:

Okay yeah Rachel talked about the bases that are still left.

Jovanni:

And in Iraq, and right now Iraq parliament voted in Iraq a few years

Jovanni:

ago that those bases got to go.

Jovanni:

The bases are still there, and right now they're doing it again, they're telling

Jovanni:

parliament in Iraq saying, you have to leave, you have to pack and leave.

Jovanni:

They're illegally, the American bases are illegally occupying Syria.

Jovanni:

We just saw the saw a few weeks ago with three American

Jovanni:

soldiers were killed in Syria.

Jovanni:

They said it was in Jordan, but there was in Syria, that they were killed

Jovanni:

because they're not supposed to be there.

Jovanni:

But yeah so we've seen all this chaos happening.

Jovanni:

And like I said, like Israel Jay pointed out Israel tactically.

Jovanni:

Militarily, they're not getting what they want, they're losing a lot of guys,

Jovanni:

they're losing a lot of people, and they're losing credibility politically,

Jovanni:

chaos, there's protests in Israel right now they're, against Netanyahu by the

Jovanni:

families of those who have been captive, they're saying that, they're saying

Jovanni:

that the Israeli government are using their family member as chips, they're

Jovanni:

using their family member as fodder, and they're protesting they're blocking

Jovanni:

streets and everything, it's chaotic.

Jovanni:

It's chaotic.

Jovanni:

It's chaotic.

Jovanni:

If there's any, if there's any silver lining to this by the end of the day,

Jovanni:

the, the Zionist state of Israel will be in the bin of history just like

Jovanni:

Apartheid Africa is today, but yeah we can go on talking about this, forever.

Jovanni:

I just wanted to share something else also that, you know, from Australian

Jovanni:

journalist, Caitlyn Johnston.

Jovanni:

She commented I believe it was yesterday.

Jovanni:

And a newsletter say, Aaron Bushnell wasn't addressing Israeli government

Jovanni:

with his soldiering message.

Jovanni:

He wasn't even addressing his own government.

Jovanni:

He was addressing you, each of us.

Jovanni:

His goal was to get us all open our eyes to the horrors of what's happening

Jovanni:

and spur us to action to end it.

Jovanni:

It's been 45 days.

Jovanni:

Since the ethnic cleansing commenced in Israel, or in Palestine, I want to stop

Jovanni:

saying Israel, Occupy Palestine it's been 45 days since the ethnic cleansing

Jovanni:

and genocide has been happening in both Gaza and the West Bank and Jerusalem 48.

Jovanni:

What, what are you guys seeing in the global, what

Jovanni:

are you guys seeing with this?

Jovanni:

What are you guys feelings on this and where do you guys think we're heading?

Keagan:

I think I've been watching a lot of YouTube and I have this guy that I like

Keagan:

that did a really good video on, he called it, it's called the era of war crime

Keagan:

influencers and they're talking about.

Keagan:

The Israeli soldiers that are going on social media and posting everything

Keagan:

that they're doing, and the it would, it got so bad that the IDF had to

Keagan:

say, the commander had to say stop posting these videos, but, the problem

Keagan:

isn't just the videos alone, right?

Keagan:

It's the attitude that lets them think that kind of stuff is normal and okay,

Keagan:

and The video does a good job of going into that about the fact that like the

Keagan:

realm of acceptable behavior is like for the IDF has always been big like

Keagan:

way it's always been like dehumanizing for the people and so it's just these

Keagan:

videos are just evidence of that.

Keagan:

And it just, it makes me really sad to see that the fact that they don't, I don't

Keagan:

think that they don't see the civilians or they make the calculation that if we

Keagan:

kill one person that we think is Hamas and 25, 50 civilians, It doesn't matter

Keagan:

because we got the person that we got.

Keagan:

And I think that's just I don't know.

Keagan:

I don't know why they continue to do it, but but showing these videos and showing

Keagan:

what they're doing is, hopefully getting more people to realize wait a minute.

Keagan:

They don't see what they're doing is wrong.

Keagan:

And in fact, they're celebrating it.

Keagan:

And they're celebrating the fact that they feel like, oh we're going

Keagan:

to turn Goblin into a parking lot.

Keagan:

We're going to, sweep away all these buildings and people come settle here.

Keagan:

That's people have said that.

Keagan:

And I just don't understand why more people in America aren't mad about that.

Keagan:

They aren't mad that, this, that this is being done with our money.

Keagan:

And if we wanted to, we could turn off the tap to right now.

Keagan:

And then they wouldn't be able to do anything.

Keagan:

Like you said, Jovanni, they wouldn't be able to do anything.

Keagan:

And there just has to be more people calling for a ceasefire,

Keagan:

calling for us to stop funding this.

Jake Tucker:

Yeah.

Jake Tucker:

So Aaron stated, this is what our ruling class has decided will be normal.

Jake Tucker:

I don't find anything controversial with that statement whatsoever.

Jake Tucker:

I agree with it 100%.

Jake Tucker:

And then Caitlin asks in what you just read, Jovanni or not asked, but basically

Jake Tucker:

states His goal was to get us all to open our eyes to the horror of what's

Jake Tucker:

happening and spur us to action to end it.

Jake Tucker:

And I think the difficulty is that we don't know where

Jake Tucker:

the bottom is to this thing.

Jake Tucker:

We don't know where, we don't know where like, how depraved,

Jake Tucker:

like, how depraved does our country have to become?

Jake Tucker:

How undemocratic does it have to become in the face of overwhelming

Jake Tucker:

opposition to anything?

Jake Tucker:

This too the funding of genocide too, the support of genocide, the Everything

Jake Tucker:

but just anything that, that any working class people want like the, this is such

Jake Tucker:

a sham of democracy and everyone knows it.

Jake Tucker:

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but presidents never have support

Jake Tucker:

over 40 percent anymore, really except for maybe the day after they're elected.

Jake Tucker:

Congress can win.

Jake Tucker:

Consistently what like has 10 to 15 percent legitimacy

Jake Tucker:

among the American people.

Jake Tucker:

We do not believe in our alleged democratic institutions from people that

Jake Tucker:

basically tell us we're the greatest democracy in the history of the world.

Jake Tucker:

Studies show that people like the opinion of the people has no

Jake Tucker:

bearing on policy in this country.

Jake Tucker:

So we don't know where the bottom of this barrel is.

Jake Tucker:

We don't know how far down this all goes Caitlyn's comment, Caitlyn's

Jake Tucker:

statement, spur us to action to end it.

Jake Tucker:

We don't know what this takes, and I don't think Aaron had a clue what this takes.

Jake Tucker:

I think Aaron got frustrated and fed up with trying to figure out the

Jake Tucker:

bottom, and says Fuck, I don't know.

Jake Tucker:

Will this matter?

Jake Tucker:

I hope it matter.

Jake Tucker:

It better fucking matter because this is everything I have.

Jake Tucker:

This is literally everything I have.

Jake Tucker:

We've set the parameters from literally doing nothing or

Jake Tucker:

whatever to giving everything.

Jake Tucker:

Literally giving everything and being clear and concise in what you're giving.

Jake Tucker:

I, and I don't think I know the answer to the spurs to action to end it.

Jake Tucker:

It's such a, it's such an, it's such an interesting statement.

Jake Tucker:

I don't know what action will end this, but I do know we have

Jake Tucker:

a historical responsibility.

Jake Tucker:

We have a responsibility to the world in the belly of the beast, as we like to

Jake Tucker:

say in the core of the of imperialism, the core of the violence that is

Jake Tucker:

inflicting the entirety of the world.

Jake Tucker:

Have a responsibility to collectively build, with courage and and with

Jake Tucker:

resilience to we figure it out, figure out exactly how far we have to

Jake Tucker:

take this shit to make this all end.

Jake Tucker:

I don't know how far that goes, but it's our responsibility, living in this

Jake Tucker:

society, that speaks in our name, that we know for a fact, that even the people

Jake Tucker:

that we're not seeing in the streets at Palestine Actions, and so on, we know they

Jake Tucker:

don't think this shit's legitimate either.

Jake Tucker:

The ruling class's own polling says it, the voting numbers say it.

Jake Tucker:

In San Antonio, you might get anywhere from 7 to 15 percent of people voting

Jake Tucker:

in a local election, the people, regardless of what media, regardless

Jake Tucker:

of what politicians, regardless of what any nonprofits tell us,

Jake Tucker:

the people know that this thing, this whole thing is illegitimate.

Jake Tucker:

So how do we build something that, that puts the pressure on to make sure that

Jake Tucker:

that we end such horrors abroad and help ourselves at the exact same time?

Jake Tucker:

Because that's literally what this is.

Jake Tucker:

The more that they feel emboldened to oppress people elsewhere,

Jake Tucker:

the more they feel emboldened to oppress us here at home.

Jake Tucker:

Our futures are completely intertwined.

Jake Tucker:

And the more that we can come to that recognition, start organizing around

Jake Tucker:

shared struggles in our workplace, in our neighborhoods, in our cities,

Jake Tucker:

in our counties, states, nations, and internationally, the better off

Jake Tucker:

we're going to be and the stronger movements we're going to have.

Jake Tucker:

We're going to be able to build and put pressure on exactly those things that

Jake Tucker:

both Aaron was calling out and that Caitlin's calling out in this statement.

Rachell Tucker:

Go ahead.

Rachell Tucker:

No, I was just going to say awesome.

Rachell Tucker:

No I like agree completely.

Rachell Tucker:

And I was going to say a lot of those things, cause I wrote down like the

Rachell Tucker:

question, what goes into ending it?

Rachell Tucker:

Just like you were talking about Jake.

Rachell Tucker:

And I wanted to bring up the quote, right?

Rachell Tucker:

If Gaza dies, we all die and the whole chant by the millions, by the billions,

Rachell Tucker:

we're all Palestinians, it's, it is our interconnected struggle, right?

Rachell Tucker:

And Jake was saying, the legitimacy of the United States worldwide has

Rachell Tucker:

plummeted, has been plummeting for Decades, and especially now and so what

Rachell Tucker:

does that mean for the United States?

Rachell Tucker:

And it means it's a it's a beast that's lashing out and it's lashing

Rachell Tucker:

out internationally and it's lashing out towards its own people by

Rachell Tucker:

basically using all of our resources.

Rachell Tucker:

To maintain it, the little legitimacy it has around the world through war.

Rachell Tucker:

And and it's, here in San Antonio half of, more than half of the

Rachell Tucker:

city budget is going to SAPD and just quote unquote, public safety.

Rachell Tucker:

And while the actual safety nets of our people have been erased portable

Rachell Tucker:

housing, healthcare, all the basic needs, and where I see it going is, and,

Rachell Tucker:

thanks to Aaron and his great sacrifice is You know, putting all of the issues

Rachell Tucker:

that, organizations and groups have against each other on the left and in

Rachell Tucker:

all the spectrums away and uniting to actually fight this fight that we need

Rachell Tucker:

to be united to fight because It's against the, like we were just talking

Rachell Tucker:

about, the belly of the beast, right?

Rachell Tucker:

It's against an insane world power that all it uses is violence.

Rachell Tucker:

And the more united that we are in this collective struggle, because

Rachell Tucker:

it's, it, the people of Palestine have showed us every day their courage.

Rachell Tucker:

They've shown us every day, even though their loved ones have been dying.

Rachell Tucker:

I've been murdered for decades they've been showing us the way to victory, right?

Rachell Tucker:

And we have to learn from them, we have to learn how to organize.

Rachell Tucker:

And have to learn how to be self sufficient and push forward and

Rachell Tucker:

be bold with our actions, right?

Rachell Tucker:

March 2nd, there's gonna, it's an international day of solidarity with Rafa.

Rachell Tucker:

Find your protest on March 2nd, join it join organizations

Rachell Tucker:

and just do all that you can.

Rachell Tucker:

To, not just for for Palestine, but to end imperialism once and for all.

Jovanni:

And Rafah is that just for listeners, I know Rafah is southern Gaza

Jovanni:

that borders with the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt, where the Israeli early on

Jovanni:

said, told the Palestinian people to go because that would be a safe zone.

Jovanni:

For them to abandon the north, to abandon the center, and just go to

Jovanni:

Rafa, which is roughly almost 2 million people there right now in Ten City,

Jovanni:

and now the Israelis are threatening to invade it, to invade Rafa as well.

Jovanni:

So yes.

Jovanni:

On that note, I think this is a good place for us to wrap up for tonight.

Jovanni:

Thank you so much for your, for coming to the show and sharing

Jovanni:

your time and thoughts with us.

Jovanni:

Any last comments before we depart?

Rachell Tucker:

Thank you so much for having us and keep housing.

Jake Tucker:

Be Palestine.

Keagan:

Thank you so much for having us.

Keagan:

Thanks.

Keagan:

Be Palestine.

Jovanni:

Be Palestine.

Jovanni:

All right, thank you all for joining us tonight.

Jovanni:

I hope to see you guys again.

Jovanni:

Please follow us in our social media and Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Telegram.

Jovanni:

Hit share on Facebook and share us with your friends.

Jovanni:

Take care.

Henri:

Money is tight these days for everyone, penny pinching to

Henri:

make it through the month often doesn't give people the funds to

Henri:

contribute to a creator they support.

Henri:

So we consider it the highest honor that folks help us fund the podcast

Henri:

in any dollar amount they're able.

Henri:

Patreon is the main place to do that.

Henri:

In addition, any support we receive makes sure we can continue to provide

Henri:

our main episodes free for everyone.

Henri:

And for supporters who can donate $10 a month or more, they will be listed

Henri:

right here as an honorary producer.

Henri:

Like these fine folks.

Henri:

Fahim's Everyone Dream, Eric Phillips, Paul Appel, Julie Dupree, Thomas

Henri:

Benson, Janet Hanson, Ren jacob, Scott Spaulding, spooky Tooth, and Helge Berg.

Henri:

However, if Patreon isn't your style, you can contribute directly through PayPal

Henri:

at PayPal dot me forward slash Fortress on hill, or please check out our store on

Henri:

Spreadshirt for some great Fortress merch.

Henri:

We're on Twitter and @facebook.com at Fortress On A Hill.

Henri:

You can find our full collection of episodes at www dot

Henri:

Fortress On A Hill dot com.

Henri:

Skepticism is one's best armor.

Henri:

Never forget it.

Henri:

We'll see you next time.

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About the Podcast

Fortress On A Hill (FOH) Podcast
Clearing away the BS around U.S. foreign policy, anti-imperialism, skepticism, and the American way of war
The United States has become synonymous with empire and endless war, American troops sit in 70% of the world's countries, and yet, most Americans don't know that. The military is joined disproportionately by a 'warrior caste’ whom carry this enormous burden, making a less diverse force and ensuring most of society doesn't see their sacrifice. And American tax dollars, funding hundreds of billions in unnecessary spending on global hegemony, are robbed from the domestic needs of ordinary Americans. We aim to change that. Join Henri, Keagan, Jovanni, Shiloh, and Monisha, six leftist US military veterans, as they discuss how to turn the tide against endless war and repair the damage America has caused abroad.

About your host

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Christopher Henrikson

Chris ‘Henri’ Henrikson is an Iraq war veteran from Portland, OR. He deployed in support of
Operation Noble Eagle at the Pentagon following 9/11 and served two tours in Iraq in
support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. A former MP team leader, Henri also served two years
as a CID drug investigator. Now a journalist, podcaster, writer, and anti-war activist, Henri
no longer supports the lies of imperialism or the PR spin of the politicians, wherever the
source. He seeks to make common cause with anyone tired of jingoistic-driven death
from the American war machine and a desire to protect the innocents of the earth, no
matter their origin. Except Alex Jones. Fuck that guy. Follow him on Twitter at
@henrihateswar. Email him at henri@fortressonahill.com.